Aušrinė (00:00:02) - Before bringing any tech to the table. Try to really understand what your team needs and you are not, as an operations leader, going to be the one who writes the requirements. Your team is going to be who writes the requirements.

Ariana (00:00:17) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of operations one episode at a time. I'm your host, Ariana Cofone, and today's guest is Aušrinė Keršanskaitė, Head of Operations at Reframe and co-founder of Operations Nations. Now, if you have not heard of Operations Nation, I mean, welcome to the party folks. They are a community powered knowledge base to help operational leaders do their best work. The last five years they've been doing that with a Slack community, with different resources, with a course for operators. And right now we are partnering with them in the October International Ops Festival, which is running from October 16th through the 20th, to talk all about operations. As you know, my favorite topic. So today we talk with Aušrinė about her journey through operations and things that she's learned along the way, which I got to tell you. I definitely took some key takeaways that I'm going to bring not only into my work life, but my personal life. So I hope you're going to get a lot out of it, just like I did. Again, everything is going to be linked in the episode description. If you want to check out the International Ops Festival and of course, more about Aušrinė. All right, let's jump in. So, thank you so much for coming on to Secret Ops. This is not only a treat because we get to dive into an incredible seasoned operators experience, but we also get to talk about Operations Nation, the International Ops Festival, and everything that is going behind the scenes to make this happen. So thank you so much for being here and for taking the time.

Aušrinė (00:01:58) - Thank you so much, Ariana. I am really, really thrilled to be here. Very excited to talk about all things operations.

Ariana (00:02:06) - Yeah! Well, let's start with your journey, because we talked about this. Every operator's journey is different, which is the best because then we get to see how you sort of made your way into this industry. So give us your path.

Ariana (00:02:19) - What did that look like? Where did you start?

Aušrinė (00:02:21) - So I love this question. And running a community of hundreds of operations leaders, I ask this question every week. And so I think about it a lot. And I'm always trying to answer it for myself. And to be honest, my answer for how I got into operation, why I got it for operations is different probably every month. And so I was thinking about it earlier and thought I my answer is going to be something like, “Oh, I just fell into operations accidentally” because honestly, I always thought I did. And that's also the answer that a lot of operations leaders that I talked to give me. But then I started digging a little bit more into my childhood. And honestly, I think it is my dad to blame for getting me into operations because.

Ariana (00:03:19) - Okay, now we got to know why. We got to know why.

Aušrinė (00:03:23) - So I grew up in Lithuania, so I'm Lithuanian.

Aušrinė (00:03:27) - That's why my name is so unpronounceable for many people.

Ariana (00:03:31) - Gorgeous. Yes. Stunning name.

Aušrinė (00:03:35) - And I grew up in, you know, my family, especially my dad– he was very general. And he's also the type of person that he wants to get value out of everything, but he also sees value in everything. And he is always seeking to be helpful and useful. And I grew up with him always questioning me. So, you know, with whatever you do. Okay, you're watching this movie. What value are you going to get from it? You're doing this thing. How helpful is it going to be to you? So I think I developed the mindset of always looking for value in whatever I do. And because my dad was entrepreneurial, he was setting up his own business when I was just ten years old. And obviously he had me help because I wanted to deliver value and I wanted to be helpful. He was like, “okay, so you know, can you help me do the XYZ?” So whether it was preparing shipments or, you know, folding brochures or data entry or whatever it was, I was always very happy to be there to help because it was very validating.

Aušrinė (00:04:52) - I was there being useful. And I was also developing my skills and it was really boring admin work. It was like the back office work that I think of my parents, which is like happy that I was doing.

Ariana (00:05:07) - But as a kid, if you're doing an adult thing, it is so cool. Even if it’s the most

boring thing on the planet, right? Like you feel like an adult or you're like you're playing at being an adult. That's so funny.

Aušrinė (00:05:18) - Exactly. Yeah. And for me, it was very, very empowering from early on because I was participating in this family business. And then, you know, I was thinking about why, why am I relating this to me getting into operations when I was a kid. You know, kids say a lot of stupid things. And at some point I proclaimed to my parents, I had this epiphany and was like, you know, “dear parents, I really love this really mundane, boring admin work”.

Aušrinė (00:05:50) - And I do not remember saying this, but my parents do still remember that. And I was like, “Well, but what do operations people do all day and what do other people think we do?” Is this really boring admin work? We don't think so because for us it's really interesting. There are some really boring admin tasks that we need to get out of the way, but I think that's what really got me into operations, this childhood experience and this need to be helpful, this need to provide value and yeah, definitely have to thank my, my dad for that.

Ariana (00:06:30) - I guess that has been a thread throughout your entire career. Can you just give us sort of that rundown because it's really impressive to sort of see that journey in the roles that you've taken on and then ultimately how you're now an Operations Nation? Like how was that whole professional journey for you?

Aušrinė (00:06:48) - Yeah. So, I studied Japanese and then didn't finish it.

Aušrinė (00:06:54) - I decided to move to another degree in Fine Arts. I studied print and digital media. So it's Fine Art for digital media and I graduated from that. And then I thought, “well, I'm not entirely sure that I want to be an artist”. And I thought, “well, I don't really have anything serious on my CV. Who is ever going to want to employ me?” At that time, I found an accidental, a very accidental internship at the first ever startup that I have worked at called Songig. And I was helping them out with the recruitment process. And again, going back to, to, to delivering value or being able to deliver value for them, They hired me because I had some prior experience and recruitment agency where I worked throughout my studies and learned a ton of stuff about how to run a temp desk. And again, it was very, very fast paced, very, very tense operationally. And actually at Songig my, my title wasn't operations anything. I can't remember what it was called. I think it was more of a Project Associate/Project Assistant. But from then on I thought, I need to get something more serious on my CV. I decided to apply for a Master's Business, and I was really happy when I got into the IInnovation, Entrepreneurship and Management Master's program at Imperial College London Business School. So that was very exciting, very mind bending for me after studying three years of art, and going straight into a one year intense business degree program. And then and then what happened after my masters…so again, I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do. I was exploring some, you know, big four consultancy firms, went to an open day, you know, bought a suit for that occasion that really did not sit well with me. Then I looked into maybe I wanted to do advertising, checked out a couple of advertising agencies. Again, I thought that wasn't the path that I wanted to go in and accidentally I met a couple of a couple of guys who were just setting up their own company and they were Lithuanian, so that was like a slight connection.

Aušrinė (00:09:29) - I didn't know that from before, but they said, “Hey, we're doing a startup and this is the app. This is the first version of the app that we have created. Do you mind being our alpha tester and giving us some feedback on it?” And I agreed and I gave some really seriously not great feedback because it was like, “Well, you asked me to be honest.”

Ariana (00:09:58) - Were you just honest? Like brutally honest about the feedback? Is that what it was?

Aušrinė (00:10:02) - I was brutally honest. And, you know, when you take an Eastern European, when you take Lithuanian, we're normally brutally honest with each other, with each other and think that's exactly what they wanted to hear. And then they were like, “hey, you know, do you have anything after, do you have anything set up after your, you finish your studies? If not, then do you want to come and, and work with us?” And then I said yes, sure I would be happy to, to help because I had nothing else lined up.

Aušrinė (00:10:36) - And when I joined them we were trying to figure out exactly what I was going to do and what my title was going to be. And that's when they said, “Well, we're going to give you the title Operations Executive.” I had no idea at that point what operations meant, but I was just happy to get to have a role. And it was a very exciting startup that was pioneering and selling digital tickets for all sorts of events, entertainment. And yeah, I was just very happy to be a part of it. And then my role basically was anything from office management to filing trademarks to setting up content teams, because we had a lot of content going on, to managing customer support teams. So my role really grew in four and a half years that I was at Pipeline. My role really grew very rapidly and very soon I saw myself managing. It was probably close to 30 people across for five different teams and–

Ariana (00:11:43) - Wow, that's no joke.

Aušrinė (00:11:45) - That's how I got into operations by accident. But then again, going back to my childhood, apparently I was always meant to be there.

Ariana (00:11:54) - Yeah. When I've talked to any operator, it's always like. Somebody sort of shows you the title and then you're like, “Okay, cool.” And then you really start to own the title. Like where I was the same thing. I sort of am like, “I could do anything” with the startup I'd started working with and got a Director of Operations title. And then you just realize that that is a big beautiful sandbox to do all the things that you want to do with it. And if you're curious and if you're always looking for value in things, that drives all of this, right? And then the cool part is we end up typically being managers and then we try and instill all of those curiosities and all of those things into our team as well, which it seems after that first sort of you caught like a bug almost with that role where it's like, alright, this is my happy place now and then that became a thread throughout your career as you've done different things. So how did you get your path to Operations Nation? Because you, early along the way, saw that operations needs to become more of a part of the conversation. So how did that come to be as a part of your journey?

Aušrinė (00:13:04) - Yeah, that is an excellent question because the first time that I got the title of Operations, I had absolutely no idea what it is, what it is going to be. You know, I had a class at university that touched upon logistics and supply chain, but nothing more than that.

Ariana (00:13:24) - Totally. That's what I feel like. Everybody knows that. Logistics, supply chain warehousing, but the word operations I didn't hear about either until I was in the world of business and doing the things. And then it's like, “oh, there's so much more to this thing.”

Aušrinė (00:13:40) - Yeah, exemplary. And I think maybe, you know, in the US it's a little bit more sexy than in Europe because when I was looking for roles, I remember, you know, probably seven or eight years ago when I was looking for roles in the UK, I couldn't find anything in the US back in the day, already had something a lot more exciting.

Aušrinė (00:14:00) - But I think, you know, when it comes to when it comes to value and creating value with operations and also going going into why I co-founded Operations Nation, I think it came with the lack of resources and with a lack of understanding who I am as a professional. Because in the first five years of my career as an operations leader, I was alone. I was by myself. I had no other operations leaders that I knew apart from my boss, who was there for about a year, taught me a couple of things that are still incredibly helpful to this day. But when he left, he was like, “Hey, you know, so you're still going to do your job as a Head of Operations, but as a VP of operations, I'm leading and I'm also handing you everything that I did on top of your role.”

Ariana (00:14:57) - You know, no big deal.

Aušrinė (00:14:59) - No big deal. And it was really fun. But I was like, “okay, cool. So how am I supposed to know when I perform well? Who was going to tell me that I'm doing a bad job or a good job?” And it was very self led. And I think the biggest challenge that I had in the first five years of my career is that I didn't have anyone who gave me any incredibly helpful guidance. I worked with amazing founders and they were great. I worked with some incredible leaders on the leadership team. But when it came to operations and me defining what it means to be successful in all the areas that I was leading, sure, we had OKRs and you know, it was it's very easy to say, “Hey, well, you know, you're leading a customer support team. You're looking for customer happiness to be ten out of ten or for a really good score.”

Ariana (00:15:55) - But there's more than just that. There's a lot of unsaid…that think, you know, you want to have, but you don't know what it is exactly. As an operator. And it's almost like you feel like there's just pieces of the picture that you're not you don't know you need to see yet, that you then start to learn as you get more senior within and you get more experience within the industry.

Ariana (00:16:18) - You’re like, “Oh, that's the piece that I wish somebody would have helped me see sooner.” I mean, I found it initially, I found it eventually, but, you know, it took a couple of years. Yeah, I'm with you.

Aušrinė (00:16:30) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think it is isolated to, you know, only to operations people I think anyone in their career would love to have a mentor or, you know, a coach that has experienced what we have experienced or we are experiencing at the moment and, and really help us guide through things. But, you know, for me, it was the joy that I had when I first met another person who had the same title as me, Head of Operations. And I realized, “hold on, why am I only meeting you five years into my career? Where are all the other people? Who holds events for us? What is happening? How can we learn from one another?” Because, you know, we met each other and we geeked out on so many things from anything from, how to implement good benefits for your team to calendar color coding, that there was no topic that was left untouched.

Aušrinė (00:17:31) - Yes. And we're like, “okay, so what do we do? You know, what do we do with this?” And, how can we make the life for operations people better? And that person that I'm talking about is Claire Samson. And she is a part of the Operations Nation community. And I credit her a lot for this initial idea. We did not end up becoming co-founders. She is an amazing operator and amazing community contributor. But, you know, we have that conversation. One, we kind of wanted to do something together. But never got another chance. But later, I got another job, so I had my really amazing experience where I grew as an operator. I could really hone my skills and really make an impact. But the company was acquired in the end and I was made redundant in the process and I needed to find another role. And then I felt like, “Do I know anything? Am I a good operations person?”

Ariana (00:18:42) - Oh, my gosh.

Ariana (00:18:43) - Yes, I know that exact feeling. Were you? Even if you have years of experience, you've solved endless problems. You've helped grow a company or team or whatever. It always feels like it's never enough. Like, “do I know enough to be able to speak about it from a level of expertise” right? Like, because it's that thing that once you know a little bit, you think you know a lot. And then once you actually start to open up the career of an operator, you realize how much you can know and then you feel like you know nothing. So I felt the same way when I started learning web development. It's like, “ooh, I don't know, like I'm killing it.” And then I learned JavaScript and I was like, “I know nothing.” And then databases and I was like, “Oh, God” Each of those layers just made me realize how big of a thing this could be and I understand that feeling intimately. And so I guess part of the process was acknowledging to say like, “actually, I do know a lot and I think I can help other people. I don't know everything, but I can pass this knowledge down of where I'm at in my career today to help others.” Is that right?

Aušrinė (00:19:47) - Well, that came a lot later. Honestly, I think that's where I am now and maybe where I have been for the last couple of years. But first, I took a big dip. First, I thought, I don't know anything. I took a job at a company that was a marketplace, like my first company that I was at, like my first company where I learned operations. But it absolutely failed to evaluate how different this other marketplace is from my first one, because there was a physical product involved and apparently I did not know myself well enough to know that I just don't like moving from product from point A to point B.

Ariana (00:20:36) - Oof, physical products. Man…I've been in that world. It's so hard. It's so hard, There's so much to it. It's such a can of worms selling physical products. Every single piece of it is hard, especially for an operator.

Aušrinė (00:20:54) - Yes, it is. And think, you know, and then you start recognizing yourself, as a certain type of an operator, a certain type of an operations leader. And then I started understanding that there's no-one-size-fits-all at some point. So I ended up leaving that company fairly quickly after realizing that. But it definitely had a dent in my confidence and think it is really important to talk about it because in the Operations Nation community, there are so many people who are going through the same things, but they don't really want to talk about it publicly because they think that makes them seem underqualified or weak or whatever the word is. But I really want to call out everyone who has gone through this experience of thinking that they're not good operations people are not good professionals. And I think, you know, maybe you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, because I certainly was.

Ariana (00:21:58) - It's definitely a normal feeling too. Part of being in any type of role. And this could be any role, you know, customer service, sales, operations, finance…there's so many different factors that go into whether or not that role is right for you. It's the industry, it's the team. It could be where the company is located. It could be the types of things that they sell. And sometimes I think we as operators are very hard on ourselves. Our expectations are very high. We should be operating at the best of everything because that's kind of what we naturally tend to be as people. But then there's a limit, right? If you actually aren't really digging the thing that you're working on, there's only so much passion that you can put towards that thing and it does feel like you're failing, but in reality it's just that this isn't the right fit, you know, this isn't the right size company for me or this isn't the right role for me or maybe this isn't this isn't the right time for me to be in this role. It's not a personal thing that you're doing anything wrong. It's just a realization that you're having as to where you need to go next. So I definitely have gone through that myself. It is hard, though, to get over that mental hurdle and to let go of any negative self-talk. Do you have any tips for how you were able to sort of process those things and move forward?

Aušrinė (00:23:23) - It was a very long process. I think it did require some therapy and some coaching both at the same time because I was really not being easy on myself. It probably took me a couple of months to get out of the pit that I'm not a great operations leader and, and kind of reinstate myself in the world of work. And so one thing that I always say to my teams, especially when it is a super fast and super fast-paced working environment and everyone thinks that the stakes are high. You know, the companies that have worked at…lives did not ever depend on us. So whatever happens at the end of the day, whatever you're thinking, it's okay. People are interesting in that everyone is always thinking about themselves and there's nothing wrong with it. Everyone…the nature of humans is that we're selfish and that's absolutely fine and everyone is only ever going to think about themselves first and probably other people later. So one tip that I probably have for other people is that it’s okay? It's fine. You failed, but why does it really bother you so much? You know, some other people probably thought about it. If you really care about what other people think, they probably thought about you for a glimpse of a second. And then they started thinking about their own lives. So you're not the center of the universe. It's fine, you're going to recover. And I think a lot of my worry was initially, what are other people going to think about me? But also what am I thinking about myself? And, you know, is operations a part of me? So that second part was a little bit more difficult to overcome.

And the way that I started and again, going back to the value, my question was– I failed to provide the value that I wanted for this company. I wasted their time. How could I recover from that? And, the thing that I started thinking about is how can I fix it? How can I prevent it in future situations, in my future roles? And I started seeking more knowledge and I started seeking people that I could learn from. I wanted to find some books, I wanted to find some courses about operations, but I couldn't because there weren’t enough. There was nothing available at the time.

Ariana (00:26:08) - So essentially there weren't resources out there to help hone your skill as an operator. You did find some, but what made you want to start Operations Nation? And I guess to sort of take a step back, for those listening who have never heard of Operations Nation, what is that community?

Aušrinė (00:26:27) - So Operations Nation is a knowledge sharing hub for operations leaders or anyone who is on a path to become an operations leader.

Aušrinė (00:26:38) - And me and my co-founders, Charlene and Astrid, we started Operations Nation a couple of years ago, and it was beautifully formed from two communities that me and Astrid were running and Charlene was running independently. And so going back to the reason why we started those communities is that we saw that for ourselves or for our peers, there were absolutely no resources available. And it was also very difficult to meet other people in operations because all the events, at least in London, were for product managers or engineers or CEOs or Founders, but nothing was for operations people. And we felt that, you know, a lot of us are just sitting there in our companies tasking 24/7, leaving the office at 9 p.m. when everyone is already in the pub from 5PM. And we thought we'd really need to break this mold and just give ourselves a better chance to surviving, but also thriving as operations leaders. And so Astrid and I, we started out stories. Charlene started a cohort, “COO-hort” at the same time and a couple of years later, the three of us met. And after a very long, heartfelt conversation, we thought, we are working for the same thing. We are working to improve the lives of operations people. And we thought that we should combine forces and start working towards the same vision and mission together. So that was a couple of years ago. And what we have, so what Operations Nation is, we have a Slack community, a thriving Slack community of nearly 2000 operations people. It's exciting. It's really great to see all the chatter that is happening in the community and all the people helping one another. It's really heartwarming. And we have a lot of community members take initiatives and contribute to all the knowledge that we're creating for one another. So whether, you know they're helping–

Ariana (00:29:08) - Oh, can we talk about the book? Oh, my God, the book is so excellent. So I wanted to touch base on this because I, I wanted to mention how incredible I think this is that you all are doing. Do you mind just breaking the book down for people, sort of the concept behind it and then the format of it? Because I think that's the really yummy piece that I love.

Aušrinė (00:29:28) - Oh, that is a difficult question, actually. It's Charlene’s baby, my co-founders baby– the book. And it's something that she wanted to write for a very long time and one of the most important ideas behind it is that yes, we wanted to write a book, but do we have enough knowledge and expertise to do it really well? Or should we collaborate with others who have much more to say on these particular topics? And then we ended up going back to our community and saying, “Hey, do you want to co-write this book with us? And it is now a really beautiful collaboration. So again, we didn't want to write the book all at once, and we're releasing chapter by chapter. We're now four chapters in. We have just released the last one and we have many, many more to go. So whoever wants to see what we're writing about and download the latest chapter and all the previous ones, they can go to the Operations Nation website. It is free to download.

Ariana (00:30:42) - It's an incredible resource and I really think the energy of Operations Nation is so infused in this, in this resource, in this book because it is so community-generated. It's also incredibly engaging. It's beautifully designed. So it's really gorgeous to sort of mentally process the information. And it also solves a problem when I talk to operators who are earlier in their career and they're like, “Where do I go? Where do I go from here?” And I feel like having people who have walked the walk be able to talk the talk in that book is so refreshing. Especially because in a lot of other industries I think that some people become an expert and they sort of maybe did the thing for a year and then they're like an expert in it. But these are people who have done it for a long time and are still working as operators. And so you get that really in-depth experience in every single word that they're talking about. So like, obviously I'm crazy about it. I think it's so excellent. And it just says to me how powerful your community is that everybody is coming together and saying, “Yeah, let's support this mission, let's help others, let's educate, let's empower, let's like, let's get it moving. Let's make it accessible for anybody who wants to view it.” That is such an amazing thing that you all are putting out there outside of all the other things you're doing, including the International Ops Festival, which is when this episode is releasing. So can we talk about that as well? Because you've got some brilliant speakers, you've got everybody coming together. You know why a festival? What about this sort of is driving this initiative forward?

Aušrinė (00:32:23) - Yes. So we are incredibly excited about the Operations Festival. And what we did for the last couple of years is, you know, just 1 or 2 day conferences. And this year we thought we need to finally start doing what we always wanted to do and not only to showcase all the amazing operations leaders that are in our community or even outside of our community, but we really want to bring everyone together because I think the underpinning reason for it is that operations is not seen as sexy–

Ariana (00:33:07) - It’s not. It is so sexy, though. Like, it is so slick and cool. But we need a rebrand. We'll put it that way.

Aušrinė (00:33:14) - Yeah, we definitely need a rebrand. And I think, you know, sexiness of operations is one thing, but the importance of operations and, you know, the fact that you absolutely cannot scale a company if you don't have your operations in order is another one. And I think especially now, over the last couple of years or even the last decade, the world has become so complicated. There are so many tools that are coming out all the time, new softwares, new systems that everyone is trying to implement, to help run their companies. Yeah, there's so much more competition. And the only way that companies are going to be able to scale and stand out is through operational excellence. And who is going to deliver that operational excellence, if not operational leaders within the companies.

Aušrinė (00:34:12) - And I think, you know, over the last couple of years, operations is becoming more and more celebrated. And we have absolutely loved to see how many other communities are popping up around the globe, how many podcasts are popping up around the globe, how many other people are talking about operations. And you know, Ariana, you are one of them. You are championing this, you're waving the flag of operations.

Ariana (00:34:46) - I'm trying and I get so intense about this. But we talked about this, too. Operators work behind the scenes. They are so much of the time invisible and their work is so important and am really tired of that being overlooked or being the first to get cut or the first to be misunderstood. And it really takes us operators to get into the spotlight a little bit and talk about the things that we do so that others can understand it, right? Like it's ultimately our responsibility to do it. We also have to get over our hang ups in kind of taking up that space to do it.

Ariana (00:35:22) - But without that piece, we're going to always be having to answer the question like, “what is operations?” And I just want to get that question, you know, want to get the answer to that question out in the world. So no one needs to– I don't know, feel like it's just process or it's just supply chain. It's so many more things. It's the backbone. It's the operating system. It's how you move a business forward, how you make innovation come to life. Clearly I'm passionate about it, but I appreciate you creating the International Ops Festival to and bringing all these communities together so that we all can be aligned in one mission moving forward. It's actually quite an operational thing, which is let's get all of these things aligned so we're all moving in the same direction and bringing in our own special kind of magic in our own special energy to the pie, because every community that is involved in the festival has their own sort of slice of the operational pie and Operations Nation is kind of holding us all together, which is absolutely stunning.

Aušrinė (00:36:29) - Yeah, we hope to do that.

Ariana (00:36:33) - Oh, you definitely will. And if anybody is listening and they want to see what the Ops International Ops Fest is about or Operations nation, you can go to Operations Nation.com. We've got everything on there that you can check out. So definitely, definitely check out all of the resources, all of the events. There's virtual ones too. If you're not based in London, different locations around the world are hosting events, too. So absolutely. Check that out. Now, I would be remiss if I didn't pick your brain for some tips and tricks. So I want to make sure that any operators or potential founders or people who are listening and they want to bring an operations mentality into their life, get some things from your brain. So the first thing is, if we go into the trifecta: people, process, tech. I'd love a tip or a trick from each. And let's start with technology, since we were just talking about that a little bit. From a technology standpoint, in your experience, what is the consideration that you're always sort of putting at the forefront of your technology decisions outside of the value add? Because think that's always going to be the first kind of filter of any of these?

Aušrinė (00:37:40) - Yes, I think the main principle with any sort of tech is that less is more and that whatever tool, whatever tech you bring to the table, make sure to use 100% of it, not just 5% of its capabilities. Try to really understand it. Try to really. How to use all of its features. Try to…before bringing any tech to the table. Try to really understand what your team needs and you are not, as an operations leader, going to be the one who writes the requirements. Your team is going to be who writes the requirements. So if you're running a customer support team, if they're looking to get a CRM in place or any other system that they need, go to someone who is working on the front line and ask exactly what it is that they need, what it is that they're looking for. I think there is always a slight challenge with people who are working on the front lines. Customer support agents and operations associates even at a more junior level. And I'm saying this because I was that person. It is very difficult to phrase what problem we are trying to solve. I think where our minds always go as operators is to look for a solution. So sometimes when we're asked the question, you know, “what what tech or what to what system do you need?” We're like, okay, “so we needed to have this feature without asking the five whys.” What is it that we are really trying to do and what is the outcome that we need to see? So yeah, I think for me it's when it comes to tech, less is more. Try to really understand what is the outcome that you need. And then whenever you find the tool that is going to be helpful with your problem when you implement it, try to use all of it. Don't just use 5% of it and get another tool that would be solved with a feature on the first one that you got.

Ariana (00:40:05) - Yes, I see that a lot, too, because people are looking for unicorn platforms, right? Like most of the time, a platform is not going to solve all of your issues exactly how you want them to, but they might have a feature that will get you 90% of the way there. Instead of having to integrate a new tool and take on the added cost and then have to figure out all the data integrations. Right? So having to think about that initially and the why behind it is really important. That's such a good tip too. Even for myself, I think sometimes when you get a tool, you sort of want to check the box of like, “okay, we're using this tool now”, but it's really about learning the tool frontwards and backwards where you know every single thing that it can do and how we are and aren't using it. And that is a responsibility not just of operators, but anybody who uses that tool. It sucks to learn new things sometimes because it's hard, but that is the most important thing. I also love when people who aren't operators learn the tools because they're the ones doing the job, so then they can understand how to apply it in creative ways that might not even be in our realm of thinking, right, because they're doing the work on a day to day basis. So that's a consideration too. But that's such a good point, and I'm going to take that away into my work, which maybe connects to, you know, people, right? People is kind of the tangliest bit. It's also my favorite bit of operations. So what are some tips that you've learned in managing people within the operations of a business?

Aušrinė (00:41:34) - That's such a great question.

Ariana (00:41:37) - Such a hard one.

Aušrinė (00:41:38) - And a difficult one. I think when it comes to people who are working in operations. You know, a lot of people say that operations people or as operations people, we have no egos. I think we have massive egos because when you take an all hands meeting and, you know, the CEO says, “hey, we have this really difficult problem and you know who's going to solve it?” And then, you know, you have a room of hundred people sitting there quietly, not really, you know, trying to look away. And there will be one operations person in the company who will raise their hand, having absolutely no idea how to solve this problem yet. But they're going to be like, “hey, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to solve it” and think in a way we think that any job that no one else is doing is our job and 99.9% is kind of true because this is how so many operations people describe their roles. So doing everything that no one else is doing, which is a really I really hope that we will erase this from our vocabulary at some point soon. But we also have a lot of confidence in our ability to actually solve the problem, even if we don't have the skills, because deep down we know that we are great problem fighters and problem solvers and that, you know, no matter what, we're going to get there at the end. So, you know, I think we have really good, really big egos, but they're very well hidden and very well managed.

Ariana (00:43:13) - It's so true. It is that I've been in so many rooms or meetings where somebody has a problem and nobody's responding. Nobody's like taking the torch up. And then like you sort of wait until, you know you're going to get the look that's like, “hey, this is this is your thing now.” But you're right. There does have to be that level of confidence, maybe stupidity, maybe courageousness, all of those things mixed together to say, “yeah, I'll give it a stab.” You know, there has to be that willingness there and in a very contradictory way. It also hurts when you can't figure something out. Like it pains me when I can't figure something out or when I have to admit defeat like this integration isn't going to work or it's actually not smart to do it this way because it's going to take longer to automate this. And if you just press the stupid button, you know, like there are those moments where, you know, your ego is saying, I got to take a stab at this, and then the after effect is like, “Oh darn, that was not that didn't that didn't work out.” But that's also part of it, too. Like, I guess we do have to be willing to fall on our face as operators and maybe just be less critical when we do because it's kind of part of the job a little bit, right? We're always doing things we don't know and we have to learn.

Aušrinė (00:44:25) - Yeah, exactly. And I think we need to be gracious about when we fall flat on our face and, you know, it's fine. We're going to get up and walk away and maybe, you know, cringe a little, cry a little for a bit but it's like we're going to, you know, get up. But yeah, the reason why I was talking about our big egos is that sometimes as operations teams, we have so much on our plate and operations leaders are also very good at saying, “hey, yes, we're going to solve this problem” and then, you know, come back to our team and say, “hey, well, I have to stick in another extra project for us.” And we all very well know how overworked and tired operations teams can be. So I think my biggest lesson when it comes to people and specifically operations people, is to think twice as an operations leader before you raise a hand and take on another problem. Yet, yes, you're going to be feeling very, you know, ecstatic when you're going to solve it and help another team. But I think one very important point that a lot of heads of operations are not doing for themselves is making time away from busy time to focus on strategy. So maybe my question is not not so direct into, you know, what, what tip can I give about people, but it's, you know, try to focus on developing your operations team, try to make some time for yourself and not take on every single other problem of the company. Try to think about how to prioritize your time better.

Ariana (00:46:11) - That's a really good point. I think that I was very much a yes person always. Part of that was like, I'm a recovering perfectionist, people pleaser, all those things. But I think also you do feel like as an operator, if I don't solve this problem, no one else is going to solve this problem. And that's just not true. It is okay to not always put your hand up. It is okay to be quiet and it's okay to give yourself space or protect the space that you have to do the deep thinking. It's also the thing that, like if you're constantly checking boxes, it feels good, but it doesn't mean you're moving the dial forward. So you have to make sure that ultimately the work that you're doing is moving the team forward, the business forward, the operational foundation forward. It's not just checking a box as good as it feels to check a box. I love a checking box, but like it just it's just not the same and you have to recognize it and then be able to manage that for yourself. Which I guess let's talk about process because process is important, but it also can take over everything. So how would you recommend people think about process within operations?

Aušrinė (00:47:23) - So I'm an early stage operations person and I am all for documentation of a process or anything for that matter. Documentation matters a lot, but when I think of a process, especially in a fast growing business, it will keep changing all the time. It will need to evolve all the time. So the way that I think about a process, I will probably document the rough corners of it.

Aušrinė (00:47:56) - But, I want to make sure that I could change it any time. And I also again go back to the tech principle. I also want to make sure that the process is created by the person who is in that process day in, day out, not by someone far removed from the leadership team. Everyone in operations loves the process, but think again, sometimes you have created this beautiful line, you know, from A to Z and you're like, “Well, I really don't want to change it, or I already have this tool or, you know, this automation took me three days to figure out.” And I think sometimes we have unwillingness to throw things out that we spend so much time perfecting. I think that's probably one thing to say about this process. And then again, go back to another tech principle. “Do you really need it? Why are you thinking about creating this process? Are you sure that after you have worked under the outcome is going to be what you need? Or is it better done by creating something else or maybe removing and instead of adding something else on top?” So it's again, I think the principle is less is more and, you know, flexibility is key. I think adaptability is key.

Ariana (00:49:28) - We've talked about this and obviously with Operations Nation, this is an important piece. But mentoring, mentoring others within the field is key to growing what we do and again, creating this beautiful community. So how has mentoring factored into your early days in your career and how has that influenced you as an operator now in your life?

Aušrinė (00:49:54) - Yes. So 100% could not agree more that mentors and having someone to learn from is incredibly valuable. I think, earlier in my career…I think in the first probably five years until we founded the community where everyone started naturally mentoring one another. Those first five years, I felt very lonely as an operations leader. And I thought that I need to figure things out for myself and no one can help me. And that is just so not true. And then when we co-founded the community, it was really beautiful to see the mentorship. And again, I am a big believer that mentorship doesn't need to be, you know, senior to junior. So for me right now, I have someone that I talk to every now and then, and she's 19 and she's mentoring me on how to approach our generation because I have absolutely no clue. So I think, you know, mentorship is incredibly important and for me, one of the key people in my operations career is my current boss at Reframe Technologies, Jeff Szczepanski. So he also goes by Tall Jeff because he's incredibly tall. And so I was very lucky to meet him in my previous company where he was my COO and he taught me so many things and I will share one of the lessons that he taught me, or maybe not a lesson, just just a concept, I guess, about operations. We were talking about how operations is all about putting out fires, and he was like, “Hold on, it's not true. Yes, we are going to be putting out fires a lot of the time, but really good companies who really value operational excellence and really good operators, they should strive for building the house with fire proof bricks and installing the fire sprinklers and making sure that the fire blankets or whatever they're called, are within the reach.”

Aušrinė (00:52:22) - And honestly, it changed my whole thinking because when I met Tall Jeff, I had more of a, I guess, junior operator mindset where I was being very reactive and I made absolutely no time for proactive work, for strategy thinking. And that one conversation, I think, turned my life around as an operations person. So I think you can have many mentors in your life, but you know, sometimes one of them will tell you something that will leave a huge, huge impact and really help you reframe how you think about yourself as an operator. Another thing with Operations Nation, we have a mentorship program called Mentor Stories where people can more formally mentor one another. So again, it's been beautiful to see so many operations, people growing and helping one another grow more.

Ariana (00:53:30) - It's how you learn anything, right? Is being mentored by someone. Obviously you can go and learn on your own, but if you're hearing this episode and you're hearing us talk about this and you're like, “Oh man, I really want to be mentored”, there is obviously this program here to help you. I would also say, how could you potentially mentor a peer and how could a peer mentor you just like you were talking about, It's good to have somebody like, I love talking to people in marketing because I know nothing about marketing and it really helps me learn that part of business and industry and vice versa too. So there's all of these opportunities to sort of grow your way of seeing things, your aperture, right? And that can be by other operators, it could be in people who are in different roles as you. But I think giving back and asking questions is ultimately probably the most valuable skill that you can have and the most fulfilling if you can get there. So let's get to know you with some rapid fire questions before we wrap up this episode. I know I saw your face. It's a little nervous. It's okay, though. They're all chill questions. So first one is what is the favorite part of your day?

Aušrinė (00:54:49) - Oh, this is not such a rapid fire question. It's a very, very, very difficult question. I love my mornings. If I managed to get up early and put in a couple of hours of work before everyone wakes up, that is probably my most favorite part of the day, where I have some space to think about what to prioritize. And yeah, just to be efficient before all the meetings kick in.

Ariana (00:55:21) - Totally. Well, I find that I've become a morning person too, and it's a special part of the day, and that's all I'm going to say. So I agree with you. What book are you currently reading or what audiobook are you currently listening to?

Aušrinė (00:55:33) - Oh, I am currently audio listening to a book called Make Time. Unfortunately only two minutes and so I'm not making time for it yet.

Ariana (00:55:46) - Oh, the irony.

Aušrinė (00:55:48) - The irony. It is the irony! But it is an incredible book about how to, you know, not necessarily about how to be more efficient or how to focus, but about how to shift your thinking so that you find a little bit more time for the most important things. So I'm hopeful that I'm going to be learning a lot from it. My colleagues loved it.

Ariana (00:56:14) - I'm putting that on the list too now. What is the best purchase you've made under $50?

Aušrinė (00:56:20) - Yeah. Like, Can it be a subscription? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. This is. This is like $20 a month, actually. I use a tool called Boomerang. Do you use it too?

Ariana (00:56:36) - Oh yeah! I have used it in the past. This is for the emails, right?

Aušrinė (00:56:40) - This is for the emails and it is the absolute best and I never miss anything and it keeps me on top of my inbox. Although sometimes when I go on holiday that is a problem. But it's been…I probably spent thousands for Boomerang over the last, I don't know, eight years, but it's literally the tool that I could not live without and it's worth every penny.

Aušrinė (00:57:07) - So hopefully you can start it.

Ariana (00:57:09) - Love it. What is your favorite quote?

Aušrinė (00:57:12) - So I have a favorite quote, but it is in Lithuanian and I'm not entirely sure how to translate it. It is a quote by Marcus Aurelius and it reads like, “Is your cucumber bitter? throw it away. Are there briars in your path? Turn aside.” And it's as simple as that…let me know if you need an explanation for that.

Ariana (00:57:38) - It's saying, like, the glass is half full, even if it doesn't look that way. Maybe?

Aušrinė (00:57:44) - Um, I think it's more about. So I think it could be interpreted like that as well. But I think it's more about, you know, if you, if you come to an obstacle in your life, you don't have to necessarily fight it kind of like pick your battles. So yeah, it's a little bit about prioritization. It's a little bit about giving yourself a time that is a little bit easier on you. You know, you don't have to fight every person that you meet, it’s not like everything that you think is there is coming at you? And I think there are many different ways to interpret it.

Ariana (00:58:30) - I love your interpretation, actually. That makes more sense to me too, because I think you just have to let things go sometimes. Not everything is your business to deal with. You can let it go. It's not always all about you. The next one is what is something that makes you “little kid” happy?

Aušrinė (00:58:49) - Basically seeing people being nice to each other.

Ariana (00:58:52) - Totally. What's the most important lesson you've learned so far in your life?

Aušrinė (00:58:58) - If you don't ask, you don't get.

Ariana (00:59:01) - That's a good one. I needed to hear that.

Aušrinė (00:59:06) - That went really quickly for me.

Ariana (00:59:08) - Yeah, that one. Got it. Last question is what do you want to be when you grow up?

Aušrinė (00:59:14) - Maybe I can be an artist eventually. Something that I do apparently have a degree for. I think it is not a role that I want to play. Like a specific role. I think I want to be creative. I want to remain creative. I think operations gives me a lot of space for that creativity. But I also think that it is a very intense job to do so hopefully I can unleash that creativity somewhere else when I grow up and just keep switching.

Ariana (00:59:51) - Definitely. So if people are listening to you and they're like, “Oh my gosh, I want to connect. I want to learn more from everything that she's doing”, where should we point people? Where should they find you? They could just drop me a message on LinkedIn. I am always going to respond, if not sooner than later. But I will get back to everyone. If you can spell my name.

Ariana (01:00:14) - We'll keep it in the episode description and we'll also link to Operations Nation and the International Ops Festival page that if you want to check out all the yummy things that are happening, you gotta click away. I just want to thank you so much for jumping into the human side of operations, especially as someone who's walked the path for those who maybe are thinking about doing the path of operations, it just was really helpful to hear from a human perspective.

Ariana (01:00:43) - Sometimes we're always thinking about efficiency and process and all of that, but ultimately it comes down to, you know, who are we as humans today and who do we want to be tomorrow and how do we get there? So thank you so much for your time and for all that you are doing for the community. We really appreciate it.

Aušrinė (01:00:58) - Thank you so much. Ariana. Really loved your questions. So insightful. I think I'm going to go away and think a little bit more about some of them. For your podcast and thank you for everything that you're doing to get operations out there so that we're not preaching to the choir, which is, you know, ourselves as operations leaders. But we are actually sending the message to everyone else as well.

Ariana (01:01:24) - Yeah, of course. Listeners, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Secret Ops. Please make sure to follow us wherever you find your podcast. And again, check us out as secret-ops.com.

Ariana (01:01:37) - We'll see you next time.