Karina (00:00:01) - Probably, I would say maybe three, four years ago, I started hearing it and started using it. It's definitely now all over the place. A fractional, in a nutshell, is a part-time leader.

Ariana (00:00:18) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of business operations. One episode at a time. I'm your host, Ariana Cofone. And on today's episode, we are talking to Karina Mikhli, who is a fractional chief operating officer, a workflow consultant, and also the founder of Fractionals United, A community, bringing fractional leadership together. We get to dive into a lot of fun topics this episode, including, what the heck is fractional leadership and why does no code and low code tools actually matter? It's great. And Karina's an absolutely lovely person. So I hope you enjoy it. Karina, welcome to Secret Ops. I woke up this morning and the thing I was looking most forward to was talking to you because I feel like we have been living parallel lives and we never have talked. So welcome!

Karina (00:01:17) - Thank you. I agree. I was looking forward to this as well.

Ariana (00:01:22) - It's so funny that the first time that we talk is gonna be recorded and sent to the world, but what better reason to talk about operations than with somebody who has had a very similar background to my own, but also very different. So, for our listeners, why don't you break down your journey into operations and how you got into this kind of work.

Karina (00:01:48) - Sure. So I actually started out many, many years ago as a high school English and creative writing teacher. I did that while I was still in college, which was interesting. So I was a 19 year old teaching 14, 15 year old girls at an all girls school. Not easy. Got burned out because discipline was an issue. I looked younger than I was and they weren't very academically inclined.

Ariana (00:02:19) - As a previous teenage girl, I can only imagine how insane that situation was.

Karina (00:02:26) - It was also a culture shock cuz like I am from the Ukraine and God forbid I should have ever talked back to a teacher, I would've been punished so badly. But American parents apparently think differently. So after doing that for three years I had had enough and I decided if I can't teach the books I love, let me help make em. So I forayed into publishing, as everybody else who wants to go publishing. I wanted and thought I wanted to be an editor, but the first job offer I got was for production assistant and I never looked back cuz it was so much better suited to my ops brain which I didn't know was a thing back then.

Ariana (00:03:08) - What does a production assistant do within the context of that industry? I just know nothing about it.

Karina (00:03:15) - I was production assistant then editor and whatever. And basically what book production is, like once they decide to publish a book, the editor works with the author to get it to the place where it's readable, but then production takes over and gets it actually literally produced. So production will work with a copy editor, a proofreader, a type setter, a designer, think of them as kind of like an editorial project manager, because they're literally responsible for like, taking the manuscript and doing everything that needs till it's a finished thing in a bookstore or on your Kindle or whatever. So I used to refer to it as an editorial project manager because that literally is what you are and you interact with everybody and you get it done, which is what operations is, right?

Ariana (00:04:06) - And you would have to know everything within that process because you're pulling all of the strings in all the different directions. So that was like a preview of operations within that world. And what happened next in your journey?

Karina (00:04:22) - So I worked my way up to the point where I was managing four departments and 30 people in various companies. And unfortunately that was also when Amazon and digital was happening. So after one too many reorgs and layoffs, I just got tired and started dipping my toes into other industries. And it was actually really challenging to…I knew I had the ops skills to take to another industry, but because I had spent so much time in this one vertical, it was really challenging convincing others to let me try to do it in another industry or vertical. Luckily my first, bridge job was a business manager for a small niche publisher, and I managed customer service and warehouse and fulfillment and other things. And then I was more easily able to be like, that happened to be a publisher, but I was managing the business so I can manage your business too.

Ariana (00:05:24) - In this little preview of the journey here, you took the writing and teaching, brought that into the publishing world, understand forwards and backwards how to get books published. Then you springboard that into not only doing that for another company, but also building upon that skill with more operational practice and experience.So you're just compounding it, every little bit. Is it just adding to the journey?

Karina (00:05:49) - That's a cool way of looking at it. But yeah, so then I was freelancer consultant, going forward. And this was before fractional was a thing, but that's basically what I ended up falling into. I used to describe it to people that no one starts a business to run the business. You know, they have a passion, a service, an offering, and then as soon as there's any modicum of success, they get overwhelmed with the people, the systems, the day-today. So they would hire somebody like me to run the business for them. And at any given time I was running three to five small businesses at different levels of hands-on. And that's how my brand Right Size COO came about, because actually my son was the one that pointed that out to me at that time.

Karina (00:06:38) - But that's what I was doing because fractional wasn't a thing back then. And along the way, I picked up all these various different certificates or degrees to try to prove to others that I had the thing that I knew I was doing. And of course learned a whole lot along the way. Like no code. And you know, like when you do operations, I tell people I know enough to be dangerous and in all these things because if you, if you manage all these functions, you need to understand you don't do the things yourself, but you need to understand enough to be able to manage and support and guide.

Ariana (00:07:17) - Well, there's a generalist approach, which I also find I'm that way, where again, I also know enough to be dangerous about a lot of things. And then there's the specialization of operations too, where you go very low level on whatever the niche is that you have found. It seems like most folks fall into one of the two camps or they'll start more generalists and find their niche. How did you know that you approach it in a more holistic general fashion?

Karina (00:07:48) - So I think I realized, I don't remember how, but the areas that I enjoy most are like the people in the systems. And at some point…I read a lot of business books. I used to run a business book club and you know, you read the books telling you about how to brand yourself and how to, you know, your own personal like pitch, right? And I used to say, my things were people process and performance, you know, so it's the three Ps, right? So it's always been…I tell people now I can manage and optimize most anything, but where I personally contribute the most is the people and the systems and just the business operations. And that really boils down to getting things done right? Because the people, A) the people are needed part of it is the teacher of me, part is the leader in me.

Karina (00:08:46) - I love developing people. I love enabling and supporting. If there was a job where I could just mentor and nurture and support, that's where I would wanna be. And I guess that's why I'm building a community indirectly, but the people is what gets me up in the morning, you know what I mean? And that's the one thing I've actually missed in running super small companies…and I do everything. I'm a department of one, so I definitely miss having the support and the nurturing. And the other, I just, I fell into systems through Trello, believe it or not. And just the whole no-code through Trello. I used to use Trello for everything, right? It's so easy. I discovered Butler and the magic of automation and it was literally like—

Ariana (00:09:40) - A kid in a candy store! Just let me automate it all.

Karina (00:09:43) - Yeah. And I had this side gig where people would hire me to build all these like complicated Trello workflows and automations. And then I discovered Zapier because you know, Butler only takes you so far. And then I took this Zapier mastery course because I'm like, Ooh, I can do more of this with other things. And then discovered ClickUp and Integra and then Coda and you know, it's, it's amazing. Like it's just the things you can do with just telling something, okay, when this happens, do that. And it's mind blowing.

Ariana (00:10:22) - Well, and it's funny cuz I, I feel you on what you're saying for so long I ran things on sheets, which I think a lot of people start with, right? Like, you push it as far as humanly possible. And most businesses, whenever I start with them, that's where they're at. They're still doing that. The leap into this new world of no-code or low-code tools will definitely dive into more because I think it's important that we break that down for people. To sum up your journey into being a Fractional Chief Operating Officer, how many years have you been doing that now at this point? Whether it was fractional, if that was a term or not?

Karina (00:11:02) - Would say seven to eight years.

Ariana (00:11:04) - And when did fractional as a word, become a thing?

Karina (00:11:09) - Probably I would say maybe three, four years ago I started hearing it and started using it. It's definitely now all over the place. So there was a client that I started with as a workflow consultant which is something I also do, which is basically more like project based, helping clients either choose a tool or optimize, automate. And honestly, it's my excuse to stay on top of tools and be in the no, because I'm being paid to be in the know. So I always like to have at least one of that cuz it's like brain candy. So I had a workflow consulting client, a niche recruiting company. She felt they had too many tools, they weren't integrated or centralized, yada yada…I happened to mention in passing that I was a fractional COO and literally the next week she started referring to me as her COO without conversation…discussion…

Ariana (00:12:05) - It's like just, yeah, you are that now. You have no choice, you are that.

Karina (00:12:11) - So over time she needed more and more of my time till I went full-time with them. And because I was the first non-recruiting person, I did all the silly things like, you know, send myself an offer letter. I was the one who registered us. You know, when you're wearing all the hats. I literally send myself an offer letter laughing the whole time.

Ariana (00:12:31) - It’s such a funny way to build trust immediately, which is I'm gonna have your best interest and I'm gonna figure this out. Do so for our listeners who are hearing this word fractional, they're like, Karina, Ariana, what are you talking about? Can you break down what this fractional world is and what a Fractional Chief Operating Officer does within that?

Karina (00:12:58) - So a Fractional, in a nutshell, is a part-time leader. It definitely implies leadership, not just like a part-time worker. And the biggest difference, between fractional and consultants are that consultants are project-based, even if it's a long-term project, there is an end date implied. And consultants are never fully embedded in the team. They're not gonna have employees, they're not gonna represent the company. They're meant to be external support. Whereas a fractional leader is a fully embedded part-time member of the leadership team. And I know fractionals who, their teammates don't necessarily know they're fractional cuz the only difference between a fractional COO and a full-time COO is your part-time in doing other things. But you're fully embedded. You represent the company, you have employees, you're part of the leadership team. And it's been around for a while, but like you said, it just didn't have… it wasn't called that then. And I think in part because of the economy, right? And that, you know, people can't necessarily afford full-time C-level or leaders and part also because of the pandemic and people are looking for more flexibility and fractional leadership roles give you that more flexibility. I think a combination of those two things has made it a lot more appealing and a lot more in the news

Ariana (00:14:24) - A couple years ago I had never even heard of that, you know, I'd only really heard of an operations consultant or a COO or you know, an operations director, VP of Ops, whatever. Now it's so recognizable. And I think because I focus on startups, everybody kind of wants that too. And for the first time it's, I almost feel like the fractional workforce is democratizing strategy and leadership for companies that couldn't have afforded that beforehand. It's refreshing to see, and it's fun to talk to other fractional people too, because we're seeing a lot of the same problems frequently. So we're solving the same problems and we realize that you could be in a different industry or in a different region, but the problems can be quite similar across those work streams. So this gets to the trifecta. So the best way I have been able to define operations is it's a combination of people, process and technology.

Ariana (00:15:23) - And if it's working well, it's harmonious. So let's dive into each of those and pick your brain for some pro tips from your many years of working within this industry. So starting out with people, you said you wake up and what drives you is helping others. Now I am very connected to that as well. It can also overtake your life, is what I've learned. I love people, but also they're the root of my stress. So what things have you learned over the years around managing people, building people operations that could be useful?

Karina (00:16:07) - I'll answer this from the leadership perspective, the managing people. Because obviously there are different challenges with bosses and like, you know, peers. But for managing people, I think the most important thing is you have to trust the people you hire. If you can't trust them to do their job and therefore are compelled to micromanage, you've made a poor fit. You've made a poor hire and it is in your in your best interest to just help them find a better role and move on because you have your own job. And I've been micromanaged and it is the most horrible feeling in the world. I promised myself that I would never do that and I hope I haven't. And I think in reading about it, I think it comes from one of two things. Either the manager feels threatened, which is silly, but it’s human nature. Like if you're hiring, I think it's actually Jack Welch that said that if you are the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.

Ariana (00:17:14) - I love that.

Karina (00:17:15) - Yeah. But it takes, it takes confidence, right? In your own worth, to not feel threatened by hiring someone smarter than you. And, and I get it, you know, we're all human beings. We all need our jobs, we need security. So I think micromanaging comes either from that lack of confidence, or like fear, right? Because like you think you are the only one who can do this and you have to have it done your way. And that's bad because train them to do it, right? And I, so I remember a moment where I literally was biting my tongue because I had hired this amazing managing editor and she was phenomenal, but not doing it in my pace and my way. And I remember realizing this and literally biting my tongue. So I would not tell her how to do it. You know, your job is to tell them what not how, and to only be there to support them

Ariana (00:18:15) - What not how…that is a beautiful summary of that. I hear so much of my own journey in that too, cuz I know when I was younger I definitely thought that the way I viewed a solution was the best way. And that just caused all kinds of problems, right? And I think you kind of need that to blow up in your face to prove that it's not. My husband says that I always learn the hard way…by falling on my face. So I definitely think that that was part of it. But it's sometimes like you have to learn that lesson by making the mistake. And especially with people you don't know, you know, when your ego gets involved or when fear gets involved until you know, you get kicked in the butt a little bit and then it's a lesson that sticks with you.

Ariana (00:19:07) - The what, not the how. This gets into the process side of things because oftentimes what I find is people that I am helping on a leadership level are trying to solve people problems with process. And I think that has been an interesting dynamic that I've had to learn over the years where someone is not accomplishing something within a certain timeframe or they're not doing the task. And so the solution is to create a task management platform so that we can see the visibility, right? I get that a lot. Because you have such an eye on the people side of operations. What are some things that you've learned in the process side? When should you develop a process versus when should you rethink how you are talking to your people or working with the people on your team?

Karina (00:19:59) - That's a great question. So processes are important, right? I think even with the right people, they will need help, with some kind of simple process. And there's actually, there is one tool or process that I think I have implemented, I don't even know how many times now. I used to call it in my publishing days…I just called it like a communication system and it was so simple. It literally boils down to when this change happens, these are the people that need to know. When that change happens, inform these people. And it was literally just helping people decide who needs to know what. Oh, the book is gonna be late five days…marketing needs to know, maybe editorial needs to know. So it's as simple as…I say it's common sense, but my husband always tells me common sense is not common, so it's just literally connecting the dots for people that don't necessarily think that way and giving them a cheat sheet that they can stick in front of them so that they remember that if this happens, tell that person. And I went so far as to create email distribution lists for them and templates just to make it as simple as possible. So it's a no-brainer because everything falls apart if you're not communicating.

Ariana (00:21:23) - And it's hard to know now with the different styles of communicating. You know, is it a meeting, is it a document, is it a walkthrough and a Loom? But that also allows us to try different things cuz different teams are gonna respond differently to that as well. I have some clients that just love Loom and I love Loom and so we're just Loomin’, recording videos, sending them five minute videos back and forth and other clients like we hop on a call, you know, it's a call, we share our screens. And that is also I think part of that process of creation is knowing your audience and knowing the culture that you're walking into and, and what's been created before you so you know what to build upon next. Then let's hop into I think one of our favorite parts, uh, as I pull up my glasses like a nerd, which is the technology piece. This is where I wanna talk about no-code and low-code platforms and technology. Can you for our audience just explain what no-code and low-code is?

Karina (00:22:24) - So back in the day, you would have to be someone like my husband who's a programmer to build anything and or spend a lot of money, on some pre-built product out there. And those were your two options…pay for something that exists or hire someone who can build you something custom. So, so what low-code means is that you don't really have to know a lot of programming. You may just need to figure out, you know, some kind of a language or how to put in some kind of constraints. But it's a lot of it is very easy to learn and understand. You don't have to be very technical and then no-code takes it even further where you just pull an arrow from here to there and you know, click this and connect that and it's, it's meant to be super easy for non-technical people.

Karina (00:23:28) - And both of those have really, really empowered I think operators and other in, you know, other functions as well because you know, it means that if you need something you don't have to ask someone else to do it for you. And you don't need to find a crazy budget to get it done. Here's an example of the power of no-code, low-code. So when I was at my busiest, I would have five or six different emails in five or six different calendars and putting any constraint on how many meetings a day was impossible because Calendly is phenomenal, but Calendly only lets you limit per event type, not across your entire calendar. I then discovered SavyCal, which is awesome and does allow you to limit across all calendars, but it doesn't include internal calendars, I mean internal meetings, it only limits those scheduled with the link or any of the SavvyCal links. So you could still have too many meetings if you have people internally in any of your clients or orgs. I happened to be on a Coda webinar with a wonderful Maria Marquee, and it was demonstrating what could be done with their Google pack and that was just like, oh my god, I can build myself the solution. And I did

Ariana (00:24:57) - Love it. I love it. So taking a step back, because we're gonna go so hard on this, I'm gonna try and keep it high level for everybody. The world before, no-code tools or low-code tools was either Excel or you build a custom platform using code and you would need developers, right? Like there was those extremes and then what's happened, I would say probably in the last 10 years, like in the last three years, more of an extreme level is there's these middle tools that are stronger and have more functionality than an Excel sheet. But they're not so technically difficult to understand like a custom product that somebody with little technical expertise can build a solution for themselves. I find when I work with clients, I rarely ever recommend a custom build. I'm working with startups…price matters and two, who's gonna maintain that?

Ariana (00:26:03) - Are we gonna hire a developer to maintain that? It just doesn't make sense for the size of businesses that I start with. And it's funny, I think as somebody who has been technical, people wonder, you know, what are you doing with your web development skills now? And I am learning the heck out of this no-code platform, do you have that moment when you're working with clients and you build a solution of a problem that they have been trying to fix, but they don't have the the knowledge you show it to 'em and there's just that utter excitement that not only did you figure out a solution, but they can actually go in and change it, they can edit it. Are you seeing that with your clients?

Karina (00:26:43) - Yeah. Not as much as maybe you, because I'm doing it from like an operations workflow perspective and so they just want it fixed and they don't wanna know. There will be like, for especially the workflow consulting clients, I will need to have someone internally who will maintain it and train them. There are those that yes, they're like, ooh, okay, which can be dangerous because I've learned the hard way that you need to put guardrails and controls cuz they will break the thing you have spent hours doing.

Ariana (00:27:18) - Also, the con if we say with no-code or low-code tools is that if you are in that world a lot, you will push the boundaries on any tool that you work with. So I definitely am always bouncing up against those boundaries and, and working with the technical team behind the scenes to give them feedback on things that, you know, I need or clients need. This goes nicely into the inside scoop where we pivot from people, process and technology and we look at operations from a high level and we get the real advice from you Karina. Like we wanna know what the details are. So to kick off, having been in operations for so long, what do you think people get wrong about operations?

Karina (00:28:04) - Well, the first thing is people don't value it, unfortunately. It's like it's, we're the unsung heroes. If you look at startup jobs, you won't see operations until things are breaking, they're overwhelmed, they don't know where to go, then they're like, oh, we need someone to do all these other things that is not sales and technology and product and blah blah blah. So I wish in my ideal world people would understand that you bring in an ops person first because then you can scale more smartly. And it doesn't always have to be a dumpster fire, right?

Ariana (00:28:45) - That's the takeaway. It doesn't always have to be a dumpster fire folks. Some before the fire starts.

Karina (00:28:51) - Please, please!

Ariana (00:28:52) - It's true, it's true.

Karina (00:28:55) - But other than that I think I'm one of those few ops people that doesn't like documentation, which I admit is weird.

Ariana (00:29:04) - I feel like it's a necessary evil. Do I like writing documentation? Not my favorite. Do I know we have to? Yeah. Do I need like two cups of coffee before I do it? Of course.

Karina (00:29:15) - So my trick is I tend to outsource it to the people doing the work.

Ariana (00:29:19) - Oh, okay.

Karina (00:29:20) - Because think about it, like—

Ariana (00:29:22) - That’s smart.

Karina (00:29:22) - Yeah. If you're training someone, having them write the documentation gives you a chance to see if there's any disconnects because there often are. Then it's their job to maintain it, which makes them feel more vested and it's easier to maintain cuz they're the ones on the ground doing the work and then you have already something to hand off to the next person.

Ariana (00:29:46) - I'm stealing that. Thank you so much…we'll see you next time. No, I'm just kidding. That is, brilliant also because I sometimes fall into that thing where I'll make a documentation or a walkthrough and nobody really looks at it until something happens and they need to fix it. And then that's when all the questions come in so that preemptively just takes care of it before it needs to happen and then the timeline is much tighter on fixing it. That is a great pro tip. I'm taking that.

Karina (00:30:18) - Yeah, it's a hack I discovered a long time ago out of necessity.

Ariana (00:30:22) - Mine is data cleanup like, oh my god. It's so necessary, but so my numbing, and man, for all of you people who are cleaning up data, I see you, I see you out there. So let's talk about what the hardest part is about operations. Like when you wake up in the morning, what is the thing that you least look forward to? I guess since we already talked about documentation, we'll rule that out. Besides documentation, what would you say is the hardest part? You

Karina (00:30:54) - You don't know how your day is gonna go. You can have the best late plans. You can time block your calendar, you can do all the productivity tips and tricks out there and then something goes wrong and there goes your day. You know, if you are to be successful in operations or biz ops or Chief of Staff or any of these nebulous in-between getting-things-done, roles. There was a time where I was reading all these like productivity books and I'm like, why can't I apply any of this crap? Why am I who you're supposedly a productivity guru and all organized, why is my day never…why can’t I never apply this to myself? And I just finally realized it's because I'm in charge of enabling everything else and I'm the one everything comes to you can't necessarily be efficient and productive when your job is to support everything else.

Ariana (00:31:53) - That just took years of my life and made sense because I can't tell you the struggle, you know, the calendar blocking, I have multiple task lists. My inbox tracking, you've got my toggle analysis of my time and nothing really worked. And it's because we are the puzzle piece that changes based on the puzzle pieces around us, right? So we always are at the beck and call of what the day gives us, even if we plan. Cause I know that you're a planner, I'm a planner too, but operation says nope, your plan goes out the window when you wake up in the morning. And that it does make so much sense. It also makes me think I should be a little bit nicer to myself cuz it's always, it's, it is frustrating when you really care about the thing. You're like, I should be able to walk the walk in my own life. Why can't I? it's like, well cuz your life is surrounded about doing something that supports others that will always change. Wow, that makes so much sense. Jumping from the hardest part of operations, what's your greatest joy? What makes you little-kid happy? What makes you walk away with a big smile on your face?

Karina (00:33:08) - Solving problems.

Ariana (00:33:11) - Hmm. Yummy. Right?

Karina (00:33:12) - Yeah. When I see something I've rolled out just to work and make something easier or it just goes on as planned, which is rare, but you know like my favorite word is optimize, right? And that applies And I literally have a bracelet that says optimized.

Ariana (00:33:33) - So are you selling that out of your website?

Karina (00:33:36) - That was my, that was my word of the year, like two years ago. I got the bracelet to remind myself of it. Not that I need the reminder, but it's cool.

Ariana (00:33:46) - I love that.

Karina (00:33:47) - It's just like helping get things done, right? It's helping people on the people side, helping them feel like they're making a difference and they are seen and heard and part of something. on the operations side, giving people the tools and the instructions and removing the stupid crap and just letting them do their best work. Oh my God, any day I can automate something is a day I smile because it's like, I used to joke that or not joke, I used to say that I got into automation cuz I'm lazy because anytime I see myself doing something over and over I'm like, there's gotta be a better way. So any day that I can do that for myself or someone is a good day, you know? So underneath it all, it's just solving problems or puzzles like you said, you know, making things happen.

Ariana (00:34:43) - It's funny, I don't know about you, but I love solving problems within my work, but I actually love doing puzzles, like straight up. I just love puzzles. Do you like puzzles?

Karina (00:34:52) - No, my husband and I, during Covid fell into jigsaw puzzles in a massive way. And then we went one step further. There's this company…I blanking on the name, but basically they make puzzles out of artwork. So we would only get puzzles we wanted to see on the wall and we have framed puzzles all over the apartments.

Ariana (00:35:15) - Okay. This is a really important question. Do you have a puzzle board? That's been on my wishlist for years.I just haven't jumped in.

Karina (00:35:24) - We ended up returning it and we just bought big cardboard, constructions and just moved that around cuz it's way more portable. So we have a few because my husband would then when it's finished it would stay on there till he managed to put one of those clear coverings to reinforce the back of it.

Ariana (00:35:47) - Yep. I can't remember the name of it. Yep.

Karina (00:35:50) - So yeah, we had a whole system to it. And we have several of those cardboards so we can move them around with us easily.

Ariana (00:35:58) - My god, I love that. My husband, when he looks at a puzzle, he gets stressed out. So I'm just doing puzzles by myself all day. So I'm jealous of your buddy. Let's shift slightly because you really care about people. You really care about building community, obviously you care about solving problems to make people's quality of life better. That is a mission that is clearly in your DNA recently you have launched a community, Fractionals United, I'm a part of it. You should join. Can you talk about why you created that and the mission of what you're trying to build with it?

Karina (00:36:34) - So when I came back to the fractional landscape after having gone full-time with that client, I came back to a very different fractional climate, right? On the one hand it's way more popular. There's more of us. Everyone's writing and talking about it, which is great. But it also felt lonelier and harder because it's still hard to find the work. You know, it's not common. And if you are not a networker or business development group by nature, which I'm not, it's hard. And I had joined so many wonderful operations communities, um, the last two years that I was like, okay, where's my, where's my fractional tribe? You know, I don't wanna do this on my own. And I was honestly surprised. I had this idea on January 7th, that evening I started Googling, expecting to find it, but couldn't find it.

Karina (00:37:30) - I found platforms that supposedly help you find the work. I found one community on the other side of a paid program, which…I wanted a community first, community for its own sake. Couldn't find it, I was surprised. I decided okay, maybe this is the one thing that you know, because usually my ideas, I'm usually the integrator, not the visionary, right? So any idea I come up with when I Google exists and this one didn't. I'm like, okay. So I put up a free slack, messaged a bunch of my communities just to see if there was interest. I had over 50 members by the end of that weekend.

Ariana (00:38:10) - Wow.

Karina (00:38:11) - Yeah. And now this is our 10th week and we're over 700.

Ariana (00:38:15) - Oh my gosh.

Karina (00:38:17) - Yeah.

Ariana (00:38:17) - That's insane.

Karina (00:38:19) - Yes. So obviously I wasn't the only one feeling the need.

Ariana (00:38:23) - Wow. I didn't realize it had grown that quickly. I had seen a lot of conversation, but you don't kind of pull back to that level to see how many people are needing that kind of support. Especially cuz we are sort sort of isolated to ourselves and our clients. And it's so funny, we, there's a Slack that we communicate on and I had a particular problem, around technology and what I would normally do is I would research all these top 10 lists around the technology that I'm looking for. I set up phone calls and I thought maybe I'm just gonna do this differently. And I thought about Fractionals United, dropped in the tools channel, Hey, what is the best AI time notes automation tool? And I got like 12 responses in maybe an hour or two hours and people messaging me directly. That's the kind of stuff that we as operators need and as fractional people need because there's too many tools, there's too many options. We do not have the time. I mean, I could spend all day looking for these tools. So what you're doing is really connecting the dots in a way that gives us that community we just don't have in our own work. What would you say has been a happy surprise in creating Fractionals United?

Karina (00:39:43) - I've always wanted to build something. We're builders, but I usually build something for someone else. This is the first time I'm building something for myself and it's kinda nice being in the founder’s seat, which I've never done before. Yeah, there's a lot of stress and responsibility and I've never done this before, so I'm learning as I go along and hopefully don't crash the plane while I'm flying it. But it's actually nice being in that founder's seat and knowing this is my baby, right? Mine to nurture mine to grow. And also not having a boss!

Ariana (00:40:19) - That is always an added bonus. I think for a lot of people who are listening in operations, you know, we have been the behind the scenes people and that is part of why I wanted to start this podcast, is to bring those people to light because we make the world turn. If We work our tails off to make things work. So in shifting from being, you know, behind the scenes operator to leading and being the visionary, what does that feel like, to take that new role?

Karina (00:40:51) - It's really interesting. It's funny because a couple of weeks before I did this…I'm part of a great community called COO forum and occasionally COOs become CEOs and I actually was talking to my husband, I'm like, I wonder if I could do that? And he is like, no, you're not a salesperson. Like you don't wanna be out there among people. And then this happened and I'm like, well… So for us and I think for people in general, it's gotta be something you really believe in. Cuz otherwise you, it's hard to put yourself out there. I've been joking that one day I'm gonna write a book and the title will be “The Accidental Founder. How an introvert became a community builder”

Ariana (00:41:35) - Oh, I love that. I mean now you gotta trademark and copyright that. That's too good. That's too good.

Karina (00:41:44) - . So it's been a learning experience, but it's been a good one. And I would say, if there's something that you believe in, do it. As operators, so not to name names, but there's another community and it took him a lot longer. I think he had the idea before I did and it took him a lot longer to get to where he is and he's behind. And e was surprised at how quickly I moved. But that's the operator in us. Who better than us? Like, we get stuff done. I won't say the s h i t word.

Ariana (00:42:18) - We get shit done. I'm saying it for us. Yeah. Because it feels good and it's true.

Karina (00:42:24) - Yeah. SoI literally had this idea on a Saturday. By Saturday night I had a free Slack, I had a landing page,I had bought a domain. I did all this literally in one night.

Ariana (00:42:38) - I love it. It's true. If we can as operators hone our ability to be visionaries and also support each other to practice that skillset, I feel like we're gonna start seeing some new stuff in the next couple years. And that makes me really excited. I would love to see more founders who have a foundation in operations. I wanna see what they're building. I wanna see what they're thinking about. And so many people who are founding businesses, they're branding or marketing and, you know, we can have everybody at the table. I just would love a couple more of us in there. So if people wanted to join Fractionals United, what is the best way to go about doing that? And what do you need to have within your career to join?

Karina (00:43:23) - Sure. So we actually have on fractionalsunited.com, there is a link or you just click on join the community and it takes you to a simple Coda form of course, which is very easy to fill out. And I get it and I review them all. The only things you need, you're either an existing practicing fractional leader or you are a leader considering being fractional. So because if you are like an individual contributor, this is just not the community…that's not what fractional work is. So I just want to make sure that everybody who joins is at least a leader either currently fractional or considering fractional..

Ariana (00:44:12) - Great. We'll make sure to link your website as well in the description for this episode. All right. We're gonna get to the questions about you and some fun facts that we can take away. So they're gonna be rapid fire. We're gonna throw 'em at you and you just go with your gut. All right? I'm shimmying over here. What is your favorite part of the day?

Karina (00:44:36) - Night.

Ariana (00:44:37) - Why?

Karina (00:44:38) - I'm not a morning person. I go to sleep early, late and I wake up late. Most of the companies I've worked for are Pacific time zone hours cuz that just works. I am not a morning person.

Ariana (00:44:48) - So night by default I think is what we're hearing here. What book are you currently reading?

Karina (00:44:55) - I am reading Anne Bishop's latest book. She's an amazing fantasy writer. She does like a little bit of dark fantasy, but she created this world called Black Jewels, which is like, this is like book 10 or 11 in the series. And I couldn't put it down. You fall into her world and love these characters and don't wanna say goodbye, you know, she's phenomenal. Anyone who likes fantasy should pick it up.

Ariana (00:45:21) - All right. What is the best purchase under $50 that you've made?

Karina (00:45:28) - Oh my God, that's a hard question…I don't know, maybe, maybe this–

Ariana (00:45:34) - Your water bottle.

Karina (00:45:36) - I don't know why. It just feels good in my hand. It's nice and smooth. It's compact, it looks good.

Ariana (00:45:42) - I live by my Yeti. I get it. What is your favorite quote?

Karina (00:45:48) - Oh wow

Karina (00:45:50) - What's the, what's the Yoda one? If at first you don't succeed, try again. Are the equivalent of that one.

Ariana (00:45:58) - Yeah, I love that. Mine is try again. Fail again. Fail better. What's the most important lesson that you've learned so far in your life?

Karina (00:46:08) - There is always tomorrow. Things happen for a reason. Even if you don't see them right now. As long as you have your health and family, tomorrow it'll get better.

Ariana (00:46:20) - Last one for you. What do you wanna be when you grow up?

Karina (00:46:23) - Ooh, can I say rich?

Ariana (00:46:26) - Me too!

Karina (00:46:31) - I don’t know I've been so many different things and I'm still figuring it out, but at this point I hope Fractionals United becomes a thing that I can keep doing and that I can figure out. Get sponsors and partners so that, there is income coming into the community so I can keep, you know, growing it and, and hire people to help me grow it and keep a fractional client or two on the side just so I'm one of you guys always. But just something that's my own and then doing the things that I enjoy doing for others. I think if I could figure out how to do that, I would be very happy.

Ariana (00:47:08) - Beautiful. So we are gonna link to Fractionals United, but outside of that website, where can people find you?

Karina (00:47:16) - Karinamikhli.com. I'm on LinkedIn. I think those are the two best places.

Ariana (00:47:23) - Karina, I wanna thank you on so many levels. One, for building a community to help fractional people connect and for doing it with such a pure mission. You just are really passionate and you can feel it in your Slacks and how you are, you're just a very warm, kind person that wants to make the world better. So I really appreciate that. Also, I just appreciate you connecting and being also a female leader in operations. It's really nice to have another one. So I just wanna thank you and for your time, obviously, and your knowledge. I hope everyone gets as much out of this episode as I did.

Karina (00:47:59) - Thank you. And thank you for having me and finally for us talking!

Ariana (00:48:03) - Yay! To everyone listening, thanks so much for sharing and listening to our podcast. If you wanna listen to more, you can find us wherever you find your podcast or at secret-ops.com. We will see you next time.