Sage (00:00:02) - Like people are not buying your product. They're buying you. They're buying your reason why. And so if you can't define your reason why or if you can't, you know, articulate that not just visually from a brand identity, but in language, then you're missing out on your core audience. You're missing out on exactly who you're trying to reach.

Ariana (00:00:24) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of operations, one episode at a time. I'm your host, Ariana Cofone, and today's guest is Sage Randall, Chief Operating Officer of Sixth Avenue Storytelling and the Co-founder of Hire Women Week, which is all about, as you guessed it, getting women hired. Now, Sage and I have a lot of similarities within our background, which made it really fun to talk about. And obviously we talk about women getting hired. We talk about our backgrounds as operators, but we also dive into the world of marketing because as a marketing executive, she's married all of these worlds into one. So get your notebooks and let's dive in.

Ariana (00:01:09) - Sage, welcome to Secret Ops. You're so lovely. I'm really excited. Partially because when I was looking at your background, like most operators, you come from all of these mixed mediums, including having been a marketing executive and operational executive as a COO. So you've got these, like, powerhouse specializations that are not always known to be married to each other, which I've got a million questions on. But outside of all of these different roles and leadership aspects that you've done, a common thread has really been about culture building and storytelling and most importantly, getting women hired.

Sage (00:01:50) - Thank you for having me! Yeah. That's right.

Ariana (00:01:51) - Hell, yes. So to kick this off, before we go totally nerdy on operational and marketing questions, can we talk about Hier Women Week, which you co-founded in 2021? Talk about what brought it to life. How has it been since getting it started?

Sage (00:02:11) - Yeah so I started in the end of 2020, around that time, a really good friend of mine that I grew up with named Kelsey Stevens, we went to high school together. We were in theater together. We were like, you know, we just have known each other for 20 years. And she came into town and she was like, you know, I, I have this company I'm working on called Ladybird Talent, and I'm really looking for a partner. I'm looking for someone to help me grow the community. She's says “and one of the things I really want to do is hire women week. I want to do a week every year. That's like our rally cry for hiring managers, for companies, for candidates, to get more women hired, but also to talk to women about, you know, how do you move up into directorial and executive levels?” You know, there's such a broken rung when it comes to moving up the ladder, especially for women. So how do you reach over? How do you push forward? So giving advice to candidates, giving advice to hiring managers on how do you create, you know, unbiased hiring practices? How do you bring in talent that's going to tell a robust story? Just so you don't have a homogenous team and why is that important? And so in May of 2021, we launched Hire Women Week. That was our first year. We also have done this extremely organically. We put very little spend behind it. So the first year we had, I believe over 1000 RSVPs to the event. That's a good amount for the first year. Absolutely not putting any spend behind it. So, you know, it became really clear in year one there is a need for this. There is a community for this. We're ready to tap into it. So year one we, you know, hosted it virtually. We had a lot of great speakers and panels. And then we did a few, you know, in-person events. And then that was also, you know, right at the tail end of Covid. So we had this amazing, you know, Women in Tech wine night where we all got together, talked about our dreams and how we're going to change the world. And then we all got Covid and it was like, so worth it.

Sage (00:04:14) - It was so worth it. It was like total magic. We talk about the night all the time. It was like everything started coming together. And then we had to like, you know, sleep for two weeks basically. So then last year, you know, was our second year in 2023. This year has been such a hard year for talent for tech. There's been so many layoffs. You know I think in an unexpected way we started ramping up for Hire Women week. And then all of these layoffs started happening. And it's like, how do we continue to push this mission forward knowing that the talent market is, you know, where it is right now. And so we still had amazing turnout. We added in mentorship matchmaking. We added in a job fair. So we had I think we had over 400 posts on our job board listed for open roles. We did get some women hired. I actually ended up hiring a woman through Hire Women Week that I've promoted to a creative director now, the agency that I work at. So we still saw like a really, you know, really decent turnout, but try, try to say like, okay, how do we continue to grow during times of economic strife and how do we continue to push this mission when, like companies that were were really gung ho about DEI during Covid are now like, we don't have the money for it or it's not a priority. So it really started expanding upon our community and building that community up. We started offering some, you know, online programs and courses for women as well. Just how do you accelerate your career? How do you promote yourself? How do you negotiate salaries, providing some of those tools.

Ariana (00:05:54) - All the difficult things that are hard to talk about, absolutely.

Sage (00:05:58) - And hard to overcome. And, you know, and there's additional challenges when being a woman also and in navigating–

Ariana (00:06:04) - Absolutely. This higher women week is coming up next week. Oh my gosh.

Sage (00:06:09) - Yeah, it's year three.

Ariana (00:06:11) - I know, it's so exciting! Three's my lucky number two, so I'm really biased, I know. Extra special magic.

Ariana (00:06:19) - What are some things that people should know about with Hire Women Week this year?

Sage (00:06:25) - Yeah. So this is our third year. We have had such an amazing time doing real life events that we're expanding to more cities this year,, which is really exciting. So, in previous years we've, you know, done some events in DFW and Austin (were based in Texas). And this year we're expanding out to Denver. We're doing an event in New York City with an amazing company called Expert Sessions, and then some other events locally. So I'm really excited about the expansion. UWe have some amazing keynote speakers that are coming up. Hannah Williams from Salary Transparent Street is one of our keynote speakers, she was last year. If you if y'all don't follow her–

Ariana (00:07:04) - She’s fantastic.

Sage (00:07:07) - She’s blown up. I think she was just on the Forbes 30 under 30. And so she comes in and she, you know, talks about salary transparency and how that's important. But, you know, the big thing is this event is free. It is a free event. We want to provide as much accessibility as we can. We want as many women to come and join and meet connections with hiring managers and find a mentor that can help move them forward and get them involved in our talent collective and in our community. Because when hiring picks back up, which it will, we're ready and we want to make sure we're coming at that full force. And so I do think, you know, this year we're going to have a pretty nice opportunity for jobs and for connecting with hiring managers. But even just, you know, coming in and listening to some of these panels and, and it's, it's a virtual event other than the in real life, events that we run.

Sage (00:07:57) - So it's super accessible. You can just, like, pop in on your lunch break and join an event and just hear some really impactful, powerful women talking about why you need to make more money, why you deserve to make more money. You know, we all want to talk about that. How do we talk a lot about transferring industries? So, you know, we have a lot of people in our network, a lot of women who are like, “I've been a teacher for, you know, years, and I want to move into project management. I want to move into product management.” And so we just have such a really great lineup of sessions coming up. I'm so excited for it next week and and anybody can RSVP and register. Registration is open and it will be open. So yeah.

Ariana (00:08:36) - We'll put it in the description field too. So even if you are not a woman and you want to support women getting hired, also be aware of that as well.

Ariana (00:08:44) - Be able to share the opportunity.

Sage (00:08:46) - And you know it's really about promoting, you know, marginalized groups. So you know, we focus on women, we focus on pushing women into these roles. But you know, we support non-binary, LGBTQ, we support, you know, the Latinx, the, you know, African American community, you know, all of that. So we just are about inclusivity and just, you know, creating equity in the hiring space.

Ariana (00:09:10) - So you and I have both been in our careers for a while now, and I have felt that pain of going from more junior in my career to more mid-level to then being more senior. And the growing pains for me sucked, very hard. From, you know, pay transparency to pay equity to, you know, even title equity with people who are at the same level than I am. In your experience, was there a moment in your career that all of a sudden this really clicked for you? Whether it was a moment where you're like, dang, I should be getting paid more or, you know, I'm doing so much hard work or I'm taking so much ownership, I really should be at a more senior title. That this, the idea became real within your life.

Sage (00:09:58) - Yeah, I and I talk about this. I talked about this last year at Hire Women Week, actually, when I started talking to the women around me at my office when we started dialoguing together and saying, okay, but how much do you make? And I see you work, you know, 80 hours a week. Is that really right? Is that fair? And it's like when we actually started just opening up the conversation to each other, we found all of these lines of communication up. Okay. We can come at this together. We can support this together. Like if you know Sage, you deserve a senior title and we need to get our money and and you know, whatever. Let's do it as a group. Let's collectively support each other in the jury. And I think that's kind of what, what tipped me off is like, oh, like I have control. I have some control over my, my career journey, my ladder.

Sage (00:10:48) - I'm not just, like, reliant on somebody coming to me and saying, oh yeah, we're going to pay you $1 million. And like, it doesn't work that way. Well, and I'm sure maybe it does for some, maybe.

Ariana (00:11:01) - I wish.

Sage (00:11:02) - I don't know. You know man out there, it's been like that. Wait a minute. That's my story. But I think, I think it really was just like. Oh. The line of communication with the other women around me that made me realize, like, I'm really good at what I do, and it's okay to fight for my, my worth. And it's okay to also fight for the worth and promote the worth of all of the other women around me, especially when I know from an operations perspective how much revenue we're bringing in and how many, how much sales we're managing. Like knowing like, okay, well, we manage half of our entire portfolio.

Sage (00:11:38) - Yeah. Can we get a little bump?

Ariana (00:11:41) - A little something here. Yeah. It's so funny that you said talking to other women in the office because I feel like we were raised in the generation and probably from previous generations, where you don't talk about money, you don't talk about your salary. But that's actually how I found out that I was being paid $20,000 less than an entry level person at my same title.

Sage (00:12:02) - Entry level person? Yeah. That's rough.

Ariana (00:12:04) - Yeah, yeah. And that, you know, that made me have a big wake up call because obviously there was something within the business that was awry that that would even happen. But also then I realized, man, I was really undervaluing my worth coming into the situation. I pitched my salary super low and yeah, they got me for a steal. And the hard part was then I had to climb up the negotiation ladder and I did get to that, that level. But it wasn't the first time that it happened in my career where I realized I was getting paid less than people of equal or same position as me.

Ariana (00:12:42) - It's a shitty story..

Sage (00:12:45) - Yeah but it's a common story.

Ariana (00:12:47) - Exactly.

Sage (00:12:47) - Yeah.

Ariana (00:12:48) - The only way that I have found I've, like, gives me some way to sleep at night is knowing that within those businesses, I then eventually became a leader, helped those equity pay issues. Right. And again, it's never perfect. Right? But it was a hard lesson to learn. And it starts with talking to other women and with other people and peers. It doesn't need to be women. Obviously, but sometimes that's where you feel safe to start talking about it.

Sage (00:13:13) - A hundred percent and I think it's also that I think that's the difference in women in leadership versus men in leadership. Not that I find amazing leaders in my life that have been men. I'm not saying men, you know, are bad leaders. I think they're great leaders in a lot of ways. I think the difference between a woman in leadership is we're coming from more of a place of empathy and understanding from the front end, rather than just the cold, hard facts.

Sage (00:13:36) - And I see a lot of men and male allies changing. I think they're taking on more like it's okay for me to be vulnerable. It's okay for me to, you know, be honest and transparent and, and not just, you know, play the boss role. But I think women just intrinsically want to take care. We're tribal-based, you know, and so yes, it's much safer, like having a safe space that you can go and ask those questions and open up, even if it's just a peer. It's game changing. And I, I work with a lot of little Gen-Z gals or little younger ladies and, you know, I know by no means am I a perfect leader. I know, like, I make mistakes, but I do try really hard to be just transparent and open with them. And, you know, when they come to me and they're like, I feel like I need to make this.

Sage (00:14:26) - I'm like, let's talk it through together. Let's run a pay scale report. Let's have a conversation about your years of experience and where you can go and what that looks like, rather than just saying no.

Ariana (00:14:37) - Or we don't have a budget. I think part of the process is that once you become a leader or a manager, it opens up the world of what kind of BS admin work goes into getting those raises. Which is, you know, that's its own challenge. And that's something that if you can understand the recruitment process, understand, you know, salary banding, salary transparency, you know, all of these different pieces, it does make you more empowered to say, am I getting paid my worth based on information? I didn't have that until I was probably in my late 20s, early 30s. To really have that information, to know whether or not I was getting paid fair. So that would be, I guess, my tip if we're talking about tips, is if you think you should be getting paid more, first of all, you have so many tools.

Ariana (00:15:31) - Glassdoor. I think LinkedIn has that too, that you can actually start to look at your qualifications and where it's in that range, and then talk to someone senior that has done recruiting to understand potentially what's going on here. If you feel like you aren't getting paid right. And again, that takes being vulnerable. But that helped me a lot in the past to say like this feels wrong. Is it wrong? Match data with experience of other senior leaders. And then I was able to say, I think I am. Yeah.

Sage (00:15:59) - And, there are so many more tools like I mean and again that's why I like Salary Transparent Street and what Hannah Williams does is so and so. Cool and powerful because she's brought it into this sort of digestible video content where it's like, you can just scroll on TikTok and see what a travel nurse makes and what a construction worker makes, and then go to the spreadsheet database and like, look it up. Also, like so many states have started requiring salary listings on their job roles, which like I'm you know, hopefully that continues on.

Sage (00:16:29) - But it's so much easier to understand your market value than it was before.

Ariana (00:16:36) - It’s a wake up call for businesses, right? If you've got to put down a number, you better be firm with what you know, like what that number is, and it better be fair and it better be considered. I really am down with it though. People I think are freaked out if they're not used to it.

Sage (00:16:51) - Oh, to just like knowing what the salary is.

Ariana (00:16:53) - Put the number. Yeah. I love it. I've seen a lot of, you know, people who are in business, you know, decades longer than I have been. And it's just like, what? That's what we do now.

Sage (00:17:05) - Like we don’t talk about that. We don't talk about money.

Ariana (00:17:07) - Right. It holds the leaders accountable to making conscientious decisions about the salary range, making sure it's fair and making sure that it makes sense, which, I think you and I are both on board with 1,000%.

Sage (00:17:22) - But it's also like, you know, it's 2023. We've all been through this collective Covid trauma. We've been through layoffs. We've been through furloughs, we've been through this crazy stuff. And it's like, if you want to retain talent and you want to attract talent and you want to, you know, create a culture of, you know, of interests that people are going to want to continue and, like, just tell them how much they're going to pay that. Like, it's such an easy, small thing that, like, sets such a great precedent for how your talent will view your company. Like it’s just so simple, but it makes such a huge difference.

Ariana (00:17:57) - Absolutely. Now again Hire Women Week is starting next week. We'll put everything in the description. Please join virtually or in person. I know that Sage and Kelsey would absolutely love to see you there and love to get feedback on it. Now I want to pivot to operations and marketing because I will give you sort of a truth of mine, which is I suck at marketing.

Ariana (00:18:20) - It is the weakest part of my skill set that I have, and I am really into the fact that you've married operations and marketing together. What a powerful duo to combine. Where did that start? Like did you start on the marketing front? Were you naturally inclined to do operations? Where did that bridge happen?

Sage (00:18:39) - Yeah, you know, I feel like that's the story of a lot of operations people. You're not a little girl dreaming of like, I'm gonna be an operation director. That's not how it works. Or a project manager. You just kind of fall into it. I actually think that my journey in my education, my story, is very unconventional. And I started in the service industry. I started bartending, working at salons, which I feel set a huge precedent for me in operations like that was the first time I did a systems build was like building a salon POS, and like that was the first time I had to manage people.

Sage (00:19:19) - And so it's like I started seeing all of the different components that make up a successful company or that move a business forward. I eventually started working for a freelancer. I've always really worked for small businesses. I love mom and pop. I have done some corporate and some, you know, sort of international agency stuff. But I love mom and pop. So I started working for a freelance market researcher and he was like, I want to build a farm. He's like, I don't want to be a market researcher anymore. I want to hire people. I want to do it. So we sat in a coffee shop for like six months and we built his company and we hired a team. We like, brought people in. We got an office in downtown Dallas. And so that was the first time that I took I feel like all of these sort of, you know, jack of all trades skills I'd learned in hospitality into business operations and learned even more, you know, worked in an incubator space and but also, I think when you're working for small business and, and I'm sure you relate to this, just running this podcast and doing what you do.

Sage (00:20:23) - You wear every hat, you do everything.

Ariana (00:20:24) - Absolutely.

Sage (00:20:25) - So, you know, I was managing the bookkeeping and like, you know, keep keeping up with our clients and building the website and like running our social media account and so, so I, I, um, you know, had been in school for business and admin. I had this job, this company was growing, and I was like, I'm actually not going to finish my Bachelor's degree. I never finished it. I was like, I'm already doing what I really want to be doing. And I have the breadth of knowledge. I don't really want to spend more money on this.

Ariana (00:21:00) - Oh yeah.

Sage (00:21:00) - I want to be more invested in this, this, you know, real tangible learning experience. So, I had, you know, had focused a lot in marketing. What really and what really happened is after I launched that company, Troubadour Research, I left them in an office in downtown Dallas, and we'd grown so much that I took on a job at a marketing agency, and they brought me on as an account executive.

Sage (00:21:25) - So someone that, you know, runs the projects, runs the timeline, meets with the clients, like everything I'd already been doing. But, it opened up a world of marketing. I just learned everything about marketing. I learned about every marketing channel, I worked with follow the sun model, offshore teams. I worked with developers. I worked with designers. I did, you know, international photo shoots. It was like boot camp for marketing. And I eventually moved into a project manager role with that agency and then a senior project manager role. And so I really honed my operational skills. It's kind of complex. I want to break it down how it worked. I think that's another reason why I learned as much as I did so fast. So I, the agency I worked for, is a company called Tag worldwide. They're an international marketing agency. They have huge clients. And I worked on site at Alcon Pharmaceuticals.

Sage (00:22:18) - So I'm in Fort Worth, Texas. Alcon, like, you know, does contact lenses and, you know, eye drops and, you know, eye surgeries like that kind of thing. So they probably had like 100 different brands on site that we were supporting in different marketing efforts. So I had this layer of like, I work for this agency, but I'm also a contractor on site internally. And then Alcon was purchased by PLS Novartis. And so I had this other level of Novartis plz and all of their internal marketing services. So I worked with all of these different teams and all.

Ariana (00:22:57) - That’s a lot of tiers.

Sage (00:22:59) - It’s hard to explain. Like it was never easy to explain. They were like who are you with? I'm like…everybody.

Sage (00:23:04) - Everybody. Yeah.

Ariana (00:23:06) - Okay.

Sage (00:23:07) - When I got to work with Novartis and plz like they had this huge internal marketing organization which was PLS, the product lifecycle systems.

Sage (00:23:14) - And I, I ended up working really closely with their Dublin office and that I feel like working with that team, I don't know, I think it was just those people. I think it was like I just connected with the right people. I ended up meeting our operations head. His name is Alex Hegarty, and he just like, I just feel like he taught me everything about systems and how, like, objects are connected and why they're connected and and why we, like, pull the data from these objects and why, like, it feels so tedious to track your time and it feels so tedious to fill out these custom fields. But ultimately, we can create these beautiful data visualizations and really show all the internal metrics that you're missing out on. Like, so like there's so much ROI and metric tracking, like outwardly and like, what's our performance and what you know, how or how, what's our revenue, what's all of that. But when you start looking internally like, okay, well, everybody's burnt out or our resources are completely, you know, overstretched and overstimulated in our, you know, our cost per head doesn't make any sense.

Sage (00:24:13) - And this, you know, like there's so much more internal data that I think gets just left behind because people don't know how to utilize that kind of system. And that's what I learned from them.

Ariana (00:24:25) - That's a big learning curve because you take that foundation of working with a small business where you I think because I've gone through that, you get this sort of real life MBA almost because you're learning everything financial, insurance, you know, hiring, regulatory compliance.

Sage (00:24:40) - Yes.

Ariana (00:24:41) - All of that. So then you go from that to then, gaining more skills in a larger environment that's almost nested into a bigger environment. So then you've got all of these, then you're learning the data-driven side of operations and how to measure metrics against decision making. There's all these pieces that are coming together, which then marries really well with the rest of your career, because now you've got the on the ground experience, and you've also got the high level strategic view as well.

Ariana (00:25:10) - And how that relates to your greater customer base.

Sage (00:25:13) - Yeah. I mean, and I was, you know, organizing photoshoots and you know, creating–

Sage (00:25:20) - Learning all about different marketing channels and you know and the lingo and how it translates between different industries and different brands. And so it was a crazy few years, but it was like it changed my life. It changed everything. And I also think back so often now that I'm in a leadership role. And I was like, I was young and I was like, you know, I can do anything which I can, you know, but you know what I mean? I was like, I had a different mindset. I was so much younger. And I had I had so much resentment sometimes towards my leaders because of the decisions that they were making, because I was like, oh, I wouldn't do that, or I would do it differently or, you know, and being in this position now, I think back so much to all the levels of leaders that I got to really experience leadership from and realize, like, and there's, there is so much that you don't see from leadership.

Ariana (00:26:08) - Absolutely.

Sage (00:26:09) - There's so much behind the scenes stuff and making all of these decisions. Some, some decisions are so tough and heartbreaking, but it's like it's so complex. And so I think that also just made me want to build better systems to help make better decisions as a leader, you know what I mean? Like, I want to have all of that data and all that info to make the best decisions I can for my team, but it's given me a lot of empathy, I think, to previous leaders as well.

Ariana (00:26:36) - Oh yeah, I was probably a savage when I was younger. I'd be like, this is stupid, why are we doing this? And then you get into that position and you eat like a big piece of humble pie. You're like, oh, okay, so we've got this board that needs these results, and we've got these leaders that need to expand to this region, and then we've got this team that we need to grow here with.

Ariana (00:26:53) - And also you have–

Sage (00:26:53) - This much money.

Ariana (00:26:56) - Yeah. Can you do it? And you're like where do I even begin until it becomes a muscle? And that is something that when I'm mentoring, you know, younger professionals too, I try to give them the bigger view of like, okay, so we're really annoyed at this one thing. Like, this person hasn't done their standard operating procedure, right. They're dragging their heels. All right. Let's zoom out and actually look at what their life is looking like at the job right now, and see where we could kind of actually make this happen in a realistic way. And it's those tiny things that having been on both sides of the equation, I think I'm able to again empathize and see it differently. Now I have a question for you. So I have a theory that nobody knows about operations because operators suck at explaining what we do. We're really bad at it.

Ariana (00:27:43) - We're just bad. Now, as someone who is also an expert in marketing, what are your top 2 or 3 recommendations of how we can get better at marketing, what we do and explaining to people the importance of it.

Sage (00:27:57) - So I actually feel like one of the ways that I feel like I've started describing and explaining it more is sort of the the integrator and visionary match up, that kind of concept and um, and really understanding that like, like, like for me, I'm not coming, I'm not an entrepreneur. Like I'm not going to come in and say, like, here's the we're going to go here and we're going to do all this great stuff. Like, it's not that I, I couldn't I just don't I don't have that drive and desire. What I do drive and desire to is like making it happen. I just want to make it all happen. I want to like, figure it out and like problem solving. It doesn't matter what it is.

Sage (00:28:37) - I'm going to make it happen. And I think operations translates in so many industries and there's so many different sorts of terms and titles for it, because that's what it is like. Like I've done a lot of video production. I've done a lot of marketing and video production and I feel like when I'm doing video production and producing, that's almost the most pure operational, like stuff I ever do, because it's really like, these are all the things we have to do to film the end, you know? It's very cut and dry and understandable, but you're making the impossible happen. It's like, oh, you need to close off a city street to film? I'll do it.

Ariana (00:29:11) - Got it. We'll figure it out. I will become a human barricade if we don't get the permit in time. Yeah, totally.

Sage (00:29:18) - I would say probably, like, you know, the way, the way to to market and explain it is like we do all the things you have no idea how to do.

Sage (00:29:27) - We know how to do all the stuff you don't know how to do, and we know how to explain it to you in data and review the actual results of it. I think like most operations and project managers that I know are also just like a jack of all trades, like the good ones, like you can jump like, and I think working for small like, I know I can jump in and like write copy or I can jump in and like, you know, help build a proposal or go to a sales meeting. But at the end of the day, my sweet spot and my most comfortable place is when I'm sitting, building it like and taking our database and translating it. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know how good of an answer that is.

Ariana (00:30:05) - That's actually that's so I think that's a good answer because when I, when I talk to founders, I also work with small to medium sized businesses. And again, as you get into larger businesses, you have operators that are more specialized.

Ariana (00:30:18) - Right? So they will do a niche of operations, whatever that may be. Financial ops, you know, specifically sales ops, revenue ops. But if you have people like us that are more generalists, the way that I explain it essentially is like right now the pain points that you have in your life, it's my job to figure out how to solve them. Yeah, yeah. And to do it in a way that's compliant, that scales well and then also allows you to sleep at night better.

Sage (00:30:44) - I actually call it untangling the Christmas lights. So as a business the lights are on, they're blinking. But it's like a big old mess. And like why, why is it working? Let's untangle the Christmas lights. We can still keep the lights on, but let's make let's like, straighten it out and sort it out and figure out the stuff that we're just, like, winging and make itt's scalable and replicable and repeatable.

Sage (00:31:10) - Yeah.

Ariana (00:31:10) - That image also just gave me chills down my spine. And like I want to fix it, but also like, it's so perfect. Yeah. Because it's like a untangling jewelry that gets tangled together. It's like you have to do it.

Sage (00:31:22) - It's looser over time. It's like you just have to dig in and start, like picking it apart and like finding the gaps and finding the spots. You can come in and, you know, untangle one thing that helps you untangle the next thing you know. There's such a transformational process, but you have to keep the lights on the whole time you're doing it. Like that's the only.

Ariana (00:31:45) - Yeah, that's it's such a, that's such a good I, I tell my clients when I'm working with them. Listen, you've got these pain points today that are keeping you up at night. If we work together for the next six months, it's going to get worse before it gets better, because as an operator, I have to dig down and see where the source of this problem is. And then you know that things are working when you wake up and you don't think about all those problems six months from now, and you have a way of processing those things, or you have somebody on your team that's in charge of navigating that, and all of a sudden is like, you wake up and life is just a bit calmer. Yeah, that's usually the subtle sign that operations is working. It's doesn't feel like, oh, I've run past the finish line and like, yes, we've done it. We've launched the product. It's like that's never that's how I felt in operations. No, no. It's always just like these little sprints of making things slightly better and giving founders more time back to put their energy where it's most valued. Usually business development, sales, you know, innovation, not the operation stuff that you and I love.

Sage (00:32:49) - That's been a huge learning, I think, for me this year too.

Sage (00:32:52) - I work with,, two local entrepreneurs. They're, you know, serial entrepreneurs. They've started lots of different businesses. They're, they're really well known locally. And so this was one of my first real like, you know, visionary integrator kind of relationships. And the the thing I've learned about everything else this year is as the, as the operator, the operations person, it's your job to shield the CEO. They cannot be in the day to day. I even if you're small, even if it's out of necessity, it's like that is a super quick duct tape solution. Had a huge learning that you have to shield them and keep them in the position that's going to like move the company forward always. And that's extremely challenging because CEOs are notoriously all over the place. Not every CEO but you know a lot of them. There's a lot of like whiplash and a lot of back and forth. And it's like like shielding them from the day to day and then shielding everyone else from the whiplash.

Sage (00:33:52) - That's been a huge learning this year, a huge learning with like a lot of failures this year, I think for me, yeah.

Ariana (00:34:00) - So the visionary and the integrator, if any of your were curious about this, a really good starting place is a book called Rocket Fuel. Oh, yeah. They even have an assessment for you that's like you can kind of see what ratio you are of each thing. But as a part of that as well, I'm obviously a very high integrator. That's where my sweet spot is too. And the, the main thing that comes across in that is like visionaries have to do their thing. They have to be able to have the whiplash to think about innovation. They have to have a safe space to make those kinds of quick decisions. And we have got to hold it down and essentially say, cool, you are really into this idea. Why don't you run at this? But let's not involve the whole team yet because we need to not distract them from this thing.

Ariana (00:34:55) - Exactly. It’s being your true authentic self. If a visionary doesn't have that space to be able to try different things and innovate and throw things at the wall, it's not good for them. But if we don't kind of set that boundary as the integrator, it's not good for us and the rest of the team. So there's that balance.

Sage (00:35:16) - learning to say no. I think also because I don't feel like I'm a big people pleaser, I feel like I'm kind of a hipster, like I just won't have we'll never not be a hipster. And I like that I'm not on trends, but like pleasing the CEO is important to everybody. And so that has also been a learning curve of like, it is my job to say, what the hell are you talking about? Like, no, yeah, I'm not doing that. And I've had a really hard time with that because I also just, you know, like as an integrator, want to to help actualize the vision and mission and with, you know, with exactly the way they want it to be and that's it's just not going to happen.

Sage (00:35:51) - And that's why you're here as an integrator, because the CEO has a vision that they don't have the intrinsic, you know, strength or ability to execute. So you have to be the firm hand of executing that vision, which means telling them, what are you talking about? Like you're crazy.

Ariana (00:36:08) - Yeah. Aw, cool. Why don't you run at that separately? Yeah. There's. I will give people a tip. Other integrators like you. Like you and I. I'll give people a tip. If you're in a meeting, this founder or CEO is talking about something and everybody is quiet. Nobody knows what is happening and nobody knows what is going on. So your job, if the meeting is quiet, is to start asking questions to set boundaries, right? Like to actually kind of contextualize that discussion for them and for the rest of the team. Otherwise, if you have a quiet meeting, I always feel like you leave and people are confused. You don't know what they should be working on.

Ariana (00:36:44) - They don't know what their North Star is. They don't know because the founder and the CEO, ultimately they are like, you know, the final say on things. So if you have a quiet meeting and you're a CEO or an integrator, speak up if something doesn't make sense. Also, I've learned that founders and integrators love when you speak up for the most part, unless they're intensely, you know, tyrannical or something, right? Like usually they love it. They want to hear that they're being heard and what makes sense and what doesn't, even if they don't say that specifically. So that's a hard thing I learned this year, too, man. 2023 year of growing and learning. And you were talking.

Sage (00:37:21) - About earlier too. Like as a leader, I think because I just fit so much in that integrator space, even though I am very creative and have a marketing background like I, one thing I'm not good at is articulating my vision. And so that's a big learning I've had this year where I know, like if I'm asking you to log your time or if I'm asking you to do this one mundane thing like, I know why, I know that it's because, you know, in six weeks I will have this, you know, robust or, you know, archive of data that I can evaluate and make better decisions on.

Sage (00:37:51) - But I don't. I don't communicate that well. And so like I've had a big learning on that of I have to help everyone else see the forest through the trees. Because it's just like mapped out. Like I can see the workflows and I can see what it looks like. And so it's like figuring that out, like how to be a visionary when you're not a visionary, and when you're working with a visionary who is extremely, like, profound in their vision, like, it's just a lot.

Ariana (00:38:17) - Oh, yeah. It does also stretch my brain, right? If I'm working with the visionary, we'll be doing something. And my brain is like, I cannot compute, I cannot compute, like usually in my brain in the past, I would have shut it down and just say, okay, this doesn't make sense to the operator computer. Now I ask a lot of questions because usually what they're seeing doesn't exist in the world, and it can help me to actually expand my toolbox.

Ariana (00:38:44) - Um, and that's the beauty of working with a visionary, is that it can force you to come up with different creative solutions that we would have never seen before. So it's not just wrangling them, but it's expanding our view, expanding our ability to see in the future. That helps both that beautiful marriage to happen. Yeah. Now, you and I both have a theater background.

Sage (00:39:10) - I didn’t know you had a theater background!

Ariana (00:39:13) - Just two theater gals in the town. So I have lived a lot of my life learning how to tell stories on stage. Something I struggle with is bringing stories into the world and into business, which is something that you specialize in, uh, at Six Avenue Storytelling. So can you talk to us more about what you all do as a business, and sort of how you've bridged your past into your present as an operator?.

Sage (00:39:40) - Yeah. And this is one of those times I'm going to try and do this. My the CEO, his name is Jamie, his spiel. He's got such a good spiel about this. So you know, Jamie started the company and his vision and mission really was to make entrepreneurship easier and to make, like growing and running a small business easier because like we said, like you said before, when you run a small business, you are everything you do everything. You are the bookkeeper, you're the lawyer, you're the product developer, you're everything. And so, you know, he being a serial entrepreneur kind of came from a background of starting a lot of businesses and working with a lot of different agencies and just never feeling like they got the story, like they never understood the why behind and and his, you know, entire philosophy of marketing, which I've seen all this time, over time, being incredibly impactful and effective, is like, people are not buying your product, they're buying you. They're buying your reason why. And so if you can't define your reason why or if you can't, you know, articulate that not just visually from a brand identity, but in language, then you're missing out on your core audience.

Sage (00:40:45) - You're missing out on exactly who you're trying to reach. And so what we do as a company is we sit down and we do a really, really robust discovery with organizations that they're very emotional. It's very it's kind of like a therapy session. And we sit down and we're like, why did you want to do this? What was the point in your life that you know that the light clicked on you? We really, really go really deep. And thorough into it. And then we build a huge, huge strategic bank. So we take this entire discovery and rather than just saying, like, okay, we're going to build a brand ID and, you know, we're going to build your branding, we're going to build you a website. We say we're going to build, you know, a 70 page document that is all of the language that you can use across all of your platforms to create brand consistency, but also to tell the story of who you are and why you do it and the challenges your customer is facing.

Sage (00:41:36) - It really is a lot like Joseph Campbell, you know, hero's journey, sort of, you know, posing our customers as the spiritual guide, you know, like your customers in Crisis and Challenge. How can you come in and save the day. And so I've seen it be incredibly impactful from an organic content perspective. We're starting to really dig in and test out that storytelling like language and methodology in like paid and like digital media and SEO as well. Because again, I think a lot, a lot of marketing is like, set it and forget it. And I think that's that is ultimately what the challenge was when he was hiring other agencies was like, okay, we do all of this on the front end, and then the rest of it is just kind of like, ah, you know, it'll it'll roll and it'll be what it'll be. But really there is like you have to continually represent yourself. You have to continually show your face like our are the clients that we do ongoing social media work for.

Sage (00:42:30) - We do between 2 and 6 photoshoots a month where we're going on site.

Ariana (00:42:37) - That's more than I would have thought. Wow, wow.

Sage (00:42:38) - And you know, it depends on the client. You know, some industries, maybe you don't need as much of that content, but we want to see your face on your website. You want to see your client. You want to see your office space, you want to create, you know, not only brand recognition, but like that feeling of comfort when you're reaching out to a brand and when you're engaging with a brand. So we'll do, you know, between 2 and 6 photoshoots a month with these clients and really put their face and their story. So we have a like, for example, we have a couple different, um, planned communities like neighborhoods with, you know, housing, you know, and, and event spaces and like, you know, where it's all inclusive. And just putting, you know, everyone's Halloween decorations and showing like everybody's really festive and like, you know, showing the neighborhood police officer, like, people respond so much because it feels like home and it feels like where they want to be.

Sage (00:43:28) - And I like our engagement rates with our clients are consistently 2 to 3 times above industry standards, just across the board because of like, of course, of bringing that personal touch into it. So it's not necessarily traditionally what I was taught or what, you know, what I learned when I was going through, um, and I, you know, I think that has to evolve and mold with time when it comes to telling your story, like really sitting sitting down and saying, what is my why? What is my mission? What is my true vision? Some of the stuff and exercises that we go through, like at a leadership level in an operational space, like you have to share some of that out. You have to, you know, pull back the curtain and reveal some of that. Otherwise, why would anyone work with you? Why would anyone buy it? You know, so that's kind of, you know, the philosophy behind what we do. And, and we really strive to work with businesses of all sizes, like, we're not really going after, you know, Coca-Cola and McDonald's and like, the big ones were going, you know, yeah.

Sage (00:44:26) - For the pizza shop around the corner and the ice cream store and the local, you know, law firm that's like up and coming lawyers. And we want, we want to also like to build the stories of the city that we live in, which we're in Fort Worth, Texas, which is like this huge, rapidly expanding, expanding city. You know, we were growing all the time, like Facebook meta has come here like, you know, like Elon was talking about coming here like it's just one of those cities that's starting to boom. And so there's so many amazing entrepreneurs and stories to tell. And, and so we really like to hone in and focus on that. We try and make our pricing accessible as well. Because as a small business, uh, as a small business owner, it's like, you know, saying, hey, you should spend $3,000 a month on ad spend, like, well, that's that's all I have.

Ariana (00:45:14) - Yeah, that's all I got. So.

Sage (00:45:15) - So how do you do it when you know, you, you need a website, you need marketing and you need social media, and you're one person and you have this much money, like, how do you make it happen? And so that is the I think the continued mission too is finding more ways that we can get these philosophies and get these tools into the hands of small business owners to help their businesses grow, which in turn fosters our community and like, grows our city.

Ariana (00:45:39) - So I have a question for you, because there's an internal battle I have with myself that I think other people, business owners, might feel as well. So social media, I think there's a culture of, you know, sharing too much information that should remain personal. Um, but like you said, sharing your life and sharing, you know, your world as a business owner is incredibly important to people connecting with you. So how do you marry the resistance I have toward sharing too much information with the knowledge of knowing that if I want to connect with people, which is ultimately my mission, I'm gonna have to share something like, how do you marry that? And how do you find a happy balance that doesn't leave you feeling uncomfortable? To a degree.

Sage (00:46:26) - I think that it's about building all of your messaging on the front end and saying, like, when I'm talking about myself, this is how I talk about myself. When we talk about our product, this is how we talk about it.

Sage (00:46:38) - And I think there's also a room for experimentation. You know, I've seen a lot of social media like content creators and, you know, um, um, you know, people out there, thought leaders and with a platform who are like, I love to talk about my failures. And it's maybe not something I would have done five years ago or three years ago, but again, it just brings this humanity into it. So figuring out like, okay, what is my comfort zone of talking about my failures? And then just like creating your boundaries around it. So it's like, it's not like you have to reveal your entire life. That's kind of about your discretion. But I do think the more comfortable you are being vulnerable, especially with the hard stuff, the more your audience will relate. And that also is about cadence. It's about saying, okay, you know, if we're posting three times a week, maybe one of those times it'll be me in my face and I'll be like, hey, we're out here scooping ice cream.

Sage (00:47:31) - And the rest of the time it'll be like, about my product, about my company. So I think it's about creating a variety in your content that always has that through line of heart, and that's through line of mission. It's, it's also very unique. But depending on the person and on the product and what they're selling, you know what we work with, um, locally, uh, some actors and voice actors and stuff and like, their whole lives are on screen. So they're way more comfortable saying, you know, yeah, this is my outfit of the day and this is what I'm wearing and this is what I'm doing it. And, you know, and people love it because they're a presence versus, you know, maybe working with a wealth management firm, you know, they're like, we don't really need to be in pictures and like, you know, but seeing you at a conference room, like working with a client, like, rather than just a stock photo on your website, like when your client comes in to do a consultant, you know, consultancy with you, they're like, oh, this is exactly what it's like.

Sage (00:48:25) - Like you represented exactly who you are. So I think there's a scale and I think there has to be a cadence to it. But I think it's worth experimenting. I think it's worth pushing past your comfort zone in, in little ways, um, and seeing what your audience engages with. And it's always the stuff you never expect.

Ariana (00:48:44) - Totally. That's the part two that I've, I've learned that whenever I think, oh, this is gonna really hit, this is gonna really hit. It doesn't, it flops.

Sage (00:48:53) - Seven views.

Ariana (00:48:56) - I wrote about a story like, uh, in October, like when I, my birthday's in October. Now, every year, um, we would have a Halloween themed birthday party and have this indestructible pinata that my mom, you know, she would always build it every year out of an Avon box. And it was so funny because I was just, like, kind of riffing on the story. And I can't tell you how many people wrote back and was like, my family also made their own homemade pinata.

Ariana (00:49:19) - I mean, I had no idea that that was going to echo with anybody, because I think it's like unique childhood memory. But that's the funny part is like experimenting, throwing things out there really start to see what things stick. And that is a really good lesson to take away for me as well, which is if you can decide on messaging up front, you can also be comfortable with the boundaries that you are setting, what you're choosing to experiment with versus what you're choosing to say, hey, this is off limits. Immediately, I think children, people who have kids, certainly like even people showing their homes, right, like these could be things that are just off limits. But to know that up front and to know, hey, this is another way that we can show the inside of our world without exposing things that I'm not comfortable with. So that's really helpful.

Sage (00:50:03) - And I think I think it's the I mean, I think you can think about operations and building systems the same way.

Sage (00:50:08) - It's like you want to get the system and the routine down and the habit down until it feels like second nature. And then you can start iterating and then you can start experimenting. So it's like if you have it all down up front and everyone's aligned on what the expectations are, you know, with operations, with marketing, with messaging, whatever it is, that's when you can start playing. But I think people want to skip forward to the play part, you know, fast. Yes. You know, so.

Ariana (00:50:38) - But then there's that whiplash when you're constantly playing and you actually don't know how to measure the success of your play. There's that too, because you don't have that baseline. So that's also a great tip to take away. Get that baseline. And then from there you can try different things. And you always have that baseline that you can come back to as well. Um all right. Well we could talk for ages I know we could. We could, we can.

Sage (00:51:00) - Let's do it again sometime.

Ariana (00:51:01) - We will have to you'll have to um, I for sure if. If, uh, we are nearing the end of our time. I wanted to get some information on you as a human being for our audience. Okay, so we're going to do some rapid fire questions just to learn more about you. I know, don't be scared. Don't be scared. Um, they're relatively easy. But again, it's just to bring your world to to light. So, uh, first question is, what is the favorite part of your day?

Sage (00:51:30) - Oh, man. I think my favorite part of my day, um, is at night, um, when sometimes my daughter's 13 and she is getting too cool for me. But you sometimes, like, wants to come and, like, snuggle and sleep in my bed. And so to me, it's like that, that point at the end of the night where it's just like everything's quiet and everything's calm, and I have my dog and my daughter and we're just in bed and we're just like, quiet.

Sage (00:51:59) - We're just like, listening and hearing. I feel like just bringing it all back to, like, why I do everything that I do. It's such a it's such a, you know, easy reminder. And, you know, it doesn't happen every day. Like, I have shared custody with my daughter. She's not with me all the time. Um, but when I have her, it's like, yeah, I it was a great day because it ended up here. And the days that end up here, it's why I do everything that I do, you know?

Ariana (00:52:24) - Oh, man. Give me emotional figure. Okay? I got to keep it together. Um, what book are you currently reading or what audiobook are you currently listening to?

Sage (00:52:32) - Man, I am really a really bad reader in the sense that I start a million books and then I, like, pick them up randomly. Right now I'm reading Scaling People by Claire Hughes Johnson I think I told you about this before. Yes. You did.

Sage (00:52:46) - Um, it's it came out this year and it's her. You know, she came from Google. She came from stripe. She like, built all the systems and stripe and like, uh, that book is just it's speaking in a way that I just understand, but. And it's like presenting concepts from operations and like, managing people that I feel like I've always known deep down. But no one's ever articulated. And I'm just I'm really, really loving it. So I'm reading that one. Um, and then I always try and read like a horror book right now. Oh, I love horror related to horror. And so I'm reading this. I have to look it up because it's like a weird, dumb name. It's a bunch of short stories. Um, that's great though.

Ariana (00:53:26) - I'm a thriller gal. Ah, hamsters. I'm a thriller gal. Yes. And I do love scary movies. Those are my two favorite things and scary stories. If you ever listen to like, podcasts, I love stories.

Sage (00:53:38) - Do you have a favorite Scary Story podcast that you like?

Ariana (00:53:42) - Uh, yes. Snap judgment is absolutely excellent.

Sage (00:53:45) - Love. Um, spooked?

Ariana (00:53:47) - Yes. It is so good. I've listened to it for years. They are scary to me.

Sage (00:53:52) - They are.

Ariana (00:53:52) - Scary. They're very scary. Um, yes, I would recommend that. Okay, I love that.

Sage (00:53:58) - I also listen to radio rental too. I don't know if you've listened to that.

Ariana (00:54:00) - Oh, I know I need to get into that too.

Sage (00:54:03) - Um yeah. Mhm.

Ariana (00:54:04) - Oh, okay. Um, what is the best purchase you've made under $50.

Sage (00:54:10) - Oh my gosh what a good question. Oh man. This is I feel like this is an easy question. I think people would argue with me. But my Revlon hair dryer that's like the round brush hair dryer. They've always had really long thick hair and like it takes forever to dry. And like, that tool changed my life. It just I went from like, I just gained time back from it and I think and I got it on sale, I think I got it for like 25 bucks.

Sage (00:54:34) - So that's like, I know the Dyson Airwrap is that I know people are really into that, you know, the new fancy one. But I'm kind of like, I'm a brand loyalist. I'm like, I'll buy it forever. Changed my life.

Ariana (00:54:44) - Well, and having come from the world of salons and all of that, that actually speaks Miles, because I'm sure you've had a lot of different experiences with tools there. Yeah.

Sage (00:54:52) - And I feel like I got really good at, like doing my own blowouts and like, you know, I know how to do all that stuff. So you have to be able to like, shave the time down and do it in, you know, 20 minutes like game total game changer. So I'm with you.

Ariana (00:55:04) - If you could go back to the beginning of your career, what is a piece of advice that you would give your past self?

Sage (00:55:10) - Yeah, and this is a question that I, I talk with mentors about all the time. Actually I know my answer to this.

Sage (00:55:15) - So if I can go back. So when I started my career, the thing I would really say to myself is, number one, love yourself and trust yourself as soon as you possibly can. Like let go of all of this. I'm not good enough and I'm not worthy, and I'm not pretty enough, and I'm not smart enough. Like it's total bullshit and nobody else thinks that. And the minute that you let go of all of that insecurity, like your life literally opens up and it changes and like that, if I could go back and tell my younger self anything, I would just shake her and be like, you're, you're great. Like you're awesome. Just like, get over it, you know?

Ariana (00:55:48) - Oh my God, what is this rapid fire question section? It's getting it's way too emotional. Sage, please. Um, what is something that just makes you little kid happy?

Sage (00:56:00) - Oh, little can happy. Um, I really love, uh. Anomalies, and when I see them at the store, I get really like giggly and excited about them.

Sage (00:56:12) - And my daughter thinks it's really funny when I just show up with Kanellis because I feel like she's like, mom, why are you doing like, what's your deal with cannoli? But I feel like there's just something about the shape. It's kind of like, you know, silly and and they just taste. I don't know, it just feels like a special, sweet treat that's just for me. I live in Texas, and they're not really like, here. They're. They're kind of hard to find. You kind of have to like. So when I see them, I'm like, we're buying cannolis today.

Ariana (00:56:38) - Doesn't cannolis. We're taking it home.

Sage (00:56:40) - I just want to cut all these for dinner. Yeah, really?

Ariana (00:56:42) - I will tell you, cannoli. Cannolis. My life changed when I learned about the cannoli dips. Oh, yeah. Instead of done.

Sage (00:56:49) - That yet, but. Oh, it looks so good. Have you done it?

Ariana (00:56:52) - I have so my husband's Italian from Jersey. And that's a big thing.

Ariana (00:56:57) - And essentially instead of having the cannoli filling in the filling, you have like a big dip of it. And then you have the chip part of the cannoli, you just dip it like a salsa and it is okay. My mouth is watering thinking about it, and I'm really sorry. I feel like I need.

Sage (00:57:09) - Maybe, uh, maybe that's going to be my girl dinner this week. I'm just going to eat some pizza. That sounds fabulous.

Ariana (00:57:15) - And I will tell you, it is all worth it. Give it a try. That's, uh.

Sage (00:57:20) - Thank you for, um.

Ariana (00:57:21) - Of course. Uh, last question is, what do you want to be when you grow up?

Sage (00:57:26) - I've been thinking about this one a lot lately because my daughter's getting older and I'm like, she's going to graduate from high school. What do I want to do? I think, I think who I want to be is, is just like, happy and helping people like, and I think I think that's why I'm in operations.

Sage (00:57:43) - I think that's why I kind of do what I do. I just want to like, help other people, like, achieve their dreams and facilitate their dreams. Um, and I just want to be really happy doing it. I also would love to be, like, maniacally rich. That's when I grow up. So that's the goal. Um, and I think I think too, you know, like, I had my daughter really young and, um, you know, I, I've been really, like, head into my career and, like, heads down and, like, getting stuff done. And I never, like, had a college experience of, like, living in a dorm or like, you know, kind of like really moving out on my own. I never had that. So I do think when she graduates, I want to like, experience that a little bit, like go like be a nomad, like a digital nomad for a little bit and like, you know, go and do the things I didn't really do when I was younger, you know, with more money, more.

Sage (00:58:32) - I'm just.

Ariana (00:58:32) - Going to take that maniacally.

Sage (00:58:34) - Better decision making.

Ariana (00:58:35) - Skills. Yeah. That's fantastic. Uh, now, if people are listening to you and they're like, I want to connect with higher women. Week six Avenue storytelling and sage. As a human being, where can people find you?

Sage (00:58:47) - So LinkedIn is definitely the best place to to grab me. I know you'll put that link in there. Um, yeah. And then hire women week is hire women week. Com and registration is open right now. Um, that you know, once that event is over, that website is still up. But you can visit us at Ladybird Talent for the rest of the year. We have LinkedIn, Instagram, um, and, you know, a website there and then six app storytelling.com, especially if you're, you know, you're a small business, you're you're looking for that kind of like marketing and storytelling support. You know, that's we're here, we're ready. We want to do it. So six app storytelling.com.

Sage (00:59:23) - Yeah.

Ariana (00:59:23) - And we'll include all of those in the description for y'all. Sage so fun I just I feel like the the inner theater kid in us just really connects. And I'm grateful for your knowledge and for really having such an amazing Northstar and getting women higher and empowering them in their careers. So thank you so much for your time and for joining us. Oh, thank.

Sage (00:59:44) - You so much for having me. I for real, let's do a part two because we could talk for hours and hours. Yeah, we could, um.

Ariana (00:59:51) - Do all the wonderful Secret Ops listeners. Thank you so much for listening. Of course. Also, we are now on YouTube, so if you are a visual learner like me, you can find us at Ariana Kaufman on YouTube. Otherwise, please subscribe and check us out. Uh, next time. Thanks.