Ariana (00:00:06) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of business operations. One episode at a time. I'm your host, Ariana Cofone, and today's guest is Jay Desai, Chief Operating Officer at Baron Fig. I am so lucky to talk to you today. Thank you so much for agreeing to give me your brain.

Jay (00:00:25) - Hey Ariana. Thanks for having me. This is gonna be a fun time.

Ariana (00:00:29) - So before we jump into operations, let's talk about where you started in your career and how you got to being a Chief Operating Officer. So where did you begin and how did you get to where you are today?

Jay (00:00:42) - Yeah, so I actually studied mechanical engineering in college and then after that I moved up to Connecticut and I was working in the aerospace field.

Ariana (00:00:51) - I didn't know that. Interesting.

Jay (00:00:52) - Yeah, I was working on, commercial and military engines, and then later on helicopters. So really different from what I'm doing now. I started off as like a project engineer, which is basically kinda like project management, for a new engine that was in a prototype phase. And actually interesting story, this summer I was in Italy and on the way back I noticed that our plane, it looked really familiar, like the engine type. And I looked it up really quick and it was like actually the engine that I was working on like 10 years ago.

Ariana (00:01:27) - Oh my god. I didn't even think that...do you look at engines when you go on a plane to see?

Jay (00:01:32) - It's like the wings and everything. Yeah. I, I love that.

Ariana (00:01:35) - Wow. Okay, so for context listeners, I've known Jay for like eight, nine years and I had no idea that this was a part of his career. So I guess what drew you to engineering in the early parts of your career and in your school? Like, what was it about, I guess that line of work and creativity that drew you in?

Jay (00:01:56) - I think as a young age, I really liked Legos and this thing called Steel Connects. It's always like building things with your hands. And then I also had a passion of...my parents definitely did not like but I used to take apart electronics and try to put them together, put them back together. And I would say I had like a success rate of like 20% but I got better as I got older and more familiar with everything I used to take apart radios and RC cars and things like that. So it was really cool to see how everything was built together and how it all works.

Ariana (00:02:37) - So I have a question just outta curiosity, which is how much math is involved in engineering? I'm assuming a good amount, but I really know nothing about engineering at all.

Jay (00:02:47) - There's a lot of math in college, but not a lot of math outside of college. So you learned a lot of, the principal, you learned a lot about like the theoretical portion of it. We had to go up to, I think it was Calculus 4 in college, which was differential equations and it was not.. I don't use that in my engineering job. My previous job, I never used it. Like it's all computers now. Like you kind of simulate what you need to simulate on the computer and the program does the math for you, but it's good to have that like understanding of what it's actually doing. So you kind of like get to understand and process it a little bit better.

Ariana (00:03:28) - So, you, I mean, have worked on engines, which is mind blowing to me. You solely taken apart things in your, your household growing up. How did you end up at Baron Fig? Like what was the draw of making physical goods and how has that all fit together?

Jay (00:03:48) - Yeah, yeah. So after, after doing all that stuff, I did a little bit of structural engineering as well, which is basically like making sure that the parts don't break during various conditions. So, making sure that the engine part of it doesn't fall apart, which is like pretty important. And then I was kind of doing this for a few years and it was getting really kind of, you know, lack of better word, boring, the whole industry is very regulated and it's for for really good reason obviously, but it was kind of be this very repetitive and the same thing over and over. And one of my best friends from high school, Joey was starting up Baron Fig. It was like pre-Kickstarter and he was just like always talking to me about it, like all the things that he's working on, like the challenges he's facing.

Jay (00:04:36) - And it was, it was pretty interesting. It was like entrepreneurship, which was like very new to us, at that age of our life. So I was just, you know, a little bit involved in that. He was asking for some help stuff with like shipping and stuff with like pre-Kickstarter stuff. So I was kind of dabbling a little bit in that. And then I think at some point he just needed a lot more help and I was like, all right, like I'm ready for a change, something more exciting, more challenging. And then, gave my notice and kind of joined Baron Fig with him and Adam, the other co-founder.

Ariana (00:05:09) - Time flies, it feels like yesterday, but it was, it was a long time ago. So can you talk about, I guess, what Baron Fig does and then as a COO...what are you managing with all of the goods that is going on at Baron Fig being created?

Jay (00:05:25) - Baron Fig creates tools for thinkers. So we started off with a paper notebook on Kickstarter, then we came out with a pen, which was actually, voted number one pen out of a hundred with New York magazine, which was like, wasn't expecting that, but that's like awesome that we got to design this and prototype it and then get into everyone's hands and they all really like it, which is just like awesome to see. And then we also have backpacks and other stationary goods. In terms of my day-to-day, I'd say it varies pretty drastically depending on the week, depending on the season, there's a lot of like internal and external things going on. The analogy that I like to use is like, it's like a train. So you're kind of, you're making sure that the train is running and then also stopping at all the different stations on time for everyone that's part of Baron Fig, whether that's internal or external. Anyone that's involved and touches Baron Fig.

Ariana (00:06:25) - So one thing that kind of blows my mind is the number of skews that you all have. And for context, so Baron Fig and Joey's my husband, Baron Fig is a company that Jay and and him, work on together. So I have some Inside Knowledge on, on the, on Jay's, what he's overseeing, which is a ton, but I think it blows my mind knowing how many SKUs that you are tracking. Are you doing triple digits now? I feel like you were almost there. Or maybe you've been there, I don't know.

Jay (00:06:55) - Yeah were at I think it's like over 200. I lost count a couple years ago. But yeah, it's a lot of SKUs

Ariana (00:07:02) - Because then when you think about the number of skews, how many suppliers then, in what parts of the world? The quality assurance, I mean just the shipping alone, there's so much that goes into, you know, consumer product goods. And I'm extra interested in how your background in engineering and creating the projects goes hand in hand, particularly because, you use the 3D printer all the time and I think it's super neat and I've never used one. So how, how do you work to help create prototypes using your background in engineering before things go to market?

Jay (00:07:39) - So it kind of starts off with our designer, either Laura or Joey, who will have some kind of rough mockup of what they're trying to make. And then I'll take that drawing or illustration and kind of...for mechanical engineering, one of the courses you have to take is computer aid design, CAD, so you kind of figure out how to model something in, on a software, a 3D model. So I would take that drawing and 3D model it on a software. And then with our 3D printer that we got, you can iterate on the design really quickly. So you would take your model and then upload it to your 3D printer and then print it within, you know, depending on how complex the model is, anywhere from like an hour to like 24 hours, like you would get like a functional prototype that you can touch, you can see, feel it in your hands, and then you kind of iterate on that process over and over until you get a final product that you really like.

Ariana (00:08:43) - How many iterations would you say on average you would do for a new project that you're developing?

Jay (00:08:49) - I'd say it ranges from probably 10 to 50. I think for the Squire we had...I wanna say 40 different iterations and everything's like small little tweaks, just getting finer and finer. Yeah, it's a lot.

Ariana (00:09:05) - So when you're starting to develop a product and you're actually thinking about like the physical space that it takes up, is it kind of big broad swings at the start to say like, let's try this, let's try that, and then you start to start to to pinpoint the, the features that you wanna have. How do you go about developing a product?

Jay (00:09:24) - Yeah, so we start off with like the really big picture. Start off with the general idea of what we're trying to manufacture. And then as we get closer, as time goes on, we get add more and more details to it. And then at the end it's kind of like when I would add in like the final touches of how everything gets assembled together

Ariana (00:09:51) - When do you start to involve, cuz I guess initially it's just you and the team all collaborating on this potential product. When do you start to get different manufacturing partners involved? Like how does that factor into developing this product?

Jay (00:10:05) - Probably starts when we have a functional prototype that we really like. And it's never gonna be the exact model that we are going to make because we're not manufacturing it. There's small little nuances that we're not gonna know if the machine ha doesn't have that capability to make something. So we would give the vendor supplier a working prototype, the drawings for that, and then they would kind of iterate on that idea, that product to get us an actual manufactured prototype.

Ariana (00:10:42) - Got it. Lots of pieces to the creating a product. I have never created a product from scratch myself, so it's fascinating to learn and I could literally spend this entire time talking about it. But back to operations as somebody who's in operations, I think there's two ways to approach your ways of working. So there's the opportunity mindset, so where you can see potential or creativity to develop new things and you kind of approach operations through that lens. And then there's the problem-first mindset. So it's like, all right, something's on fire and I gotta deal with it. And out of that problem-first mindset, we can make something better. In your day-to-day with Baron fig, where, where do you think your brain goes to? Are you more on the problem-first mindset, opportunity-first? A bit of both?

Jay (00:11:28) - I'd say probably more on the problem mindset first and then the opportunity. If there's anything that's major that's on fire, definitely address that first and make sure it evolved and then jump into like the opportunity, how we can optimize how we can grow.

Ariana (00:11:47) - Do you have a favorite part? I sometimes am really satisfied when I solve a problem, but then when you see a different way of optimizing something, I also, you know, nerd out a little bit. Do you have one that you prefer?

Jay (00:12:00) - I definitely like optimizing. But some of the fires that we do have to put out, that's definitely, that's more rewarding cuz you have to like quickly-

Ariana (00:12:08) - Interesting

Jay (00:12:08) - think on the spot and you have to come up with a solution, make sure it works, validate it, and then implement it all within like a certain timeframe.

Ariana (00:12:16) - Yeah, I think that, that smaller timeframe too does make you feel like, dang, I really accomplished something. Whereas sometimes the other things can take a year or a longer as it doesn't feel as gratifying when it, when it gets past the finish line. That's a really good point. Alright, let's break down operations. So the easiest way that I have found to describe operations across any role, any industry is that it's comprised of, people, process and technology with a little side of data. So thinking through each of those lenses, what are some things that you think about when it comes to the technology side of operations? So, I immediately am thinking about all the different partners that you're working with to develop your products. What are some tools that you want to have to connect the dots easier on that supply chain?

Jay (00:13:05) - I think a really good project management software is vital in making sure that it helps keep you on track and to help plan for what you need to get done.

Ariana (00:13:19) - Now I know that you all use Basecamp, which I think is what you're referring to. Can you talk pre base camp, post base camp, how that changed your way of working?

Jay (00:13:29) - Before it was just like...everything's in your head, you're figuring out what you need to get done, but then also you have a lot of external people involved in running a business and creating a product in whatever you're trying to accomplish. And before, it was a lot of emails, we used to use Slack, and a lot of back and forth and things would definitely get lost in translation. And once we transitioned to a project management into Basecamp, it helped streamline everything and keep everyone accountable for what needs to get done. And when things don't get done, you kind of can be aware of that and fix and address those challenges that you're facing or other people are facing.

Ariana (00:14:19) - Yeah, it's like you can only keep it into your head until a certain point and then it, you know, until you get to a certain volume or scale and then it just tips into you have to use something to extend your brain. So when it comes to technology, a project management software is like key in getting things organized and making sure that people are being held accountable, which extends into the process side of operations. So, when you are thinking about building processes with Baron Fig’s operations, what are some things that you've learned to, to have over the years? So, when we work with certain vendors, we have to make sure we have this process in place for testing, or when we're launching a new product, we have to make sure we have this X, Y and Z in place. I guess what are some of those key parts of the process that you need to have to successfully launch those products?

Jay (00:15:11) - I'd say documentation is a really good process. Making sure everyone's aware of what needs to get done in terms of talking with suppliers. Some of it goes back to like my previous job and experience there with like having good quality manuals and having quality assurance steps in place, checks in place. As you're moving from the prototype phase to the production phase, you're gonna have different challenges for making the physical products. So kind of being aware of what can go wrong and then as things go wrong, you kind of figure out and you create like a manual of what should be done in case that happens.

Ariana (00:16:01) - Documentation is a necessary evil. I don't think that people realize how necessary it is until you, I found, until you start to train others and then you're like, oh I haven't, I don't have this somewhere. Oh my God, now I have to write all this down. And like you said too, unfortunately part of operations is planning for the worst and hoping for the best. And so it's best to sort of have those things in place that when something does go down, something doesn't go right. Everybody knows what to do. I feel like I've definitely learned that lesson the hard way by not writing things down-

Jay (00:16:36) - In the beginning, yeah. I have like a strong drive to like keep everything simple as possible. Like there's saying KISS, which is-

Ariana (00:16:45) - Yes, keep it simple, stupid. Oh yeah.

Jay (00:16:48) - So simplify as much as possible. Cause I mean just like different roadblocks that you're gonna come up with that's gonna like naturally just occur. So maybe if you are able to simplify it, the less stress you're gonna have, the less challenges you're gonna face.

Ariana (00:17:03) - I think actually people underestimate how hard it is to keep something simple. It's super easy to complicate something or write really complicated instructions. It's actually really hard to keep it simple and a bit dummy proof so that anyone can pick this up and run with it. That that takes time and practice. So I guess this gets to the people part of operations nicely. So you've got your team at Baron fig, you've got a ton of different partners that you're working with to manufacture your products. I guess what have you learned in your years that have helped contribute to creating a really smooth running team? What are some people pro tips you have?

Jay (00:17:42) - Communication and setting expectations of what you want and also trusting people that they're gonna do their best.

Ariana (00:17:53) - I will chime in that I think that initially early on in my career, I really had a hard time trusting others to just do their best. Like I very much wanted to be a part of all the different parts of the process and then you sort of had to let go, otherwise you'll go crazy trying to be a part of everything. It's like we can't duplicate ourselves, right? So we have to let go and sort of trust and then have built-in feedback with the team that you've built, right? Nothing's gonna go perfect, but if you have that built in feedback loop, you can refine it and make it better.

Jay (00:18:30) - Yeah absolutely. And, and that's something that I'm always still getting, trying to get better at trusting and opening up and like making sure just... things will go well, things will run well if you trust other people in their capabilities and you guide them with what you want to do, and what your goals are.

Ariana (00:18:48) - Yeah, I've talked to a bunch of folks for this podcast and consistently I think operations and communication are just really go hand in hand. You can't have good operations without having good communication, but communication is a skill that you learn by trying new things you learn over time. You can't know how to do everything right initially. And so it takes time to learn those things. But I do feel like sometimes operations doesn't get that rap. I mean, think about it. We have so many people that we're talking to, so many stakeholders involved, so many vendors that you're working with that you have to have good communication to make sure things flow nicely. And I know I feel that way all the time. I feel like I'm always practicing my communication muscle. Okay, so getting into the inside scoop of operations, this is where we tell the audience the skinny, where people, you know, what people get wrong, what do you need to know? So let's kick it off with what do you think people get wrong about operations? So you tell people you're a Chief Operating Officer, what do you think people get wrong when they hear that?

Jay (00:19:48) - I feel like a lot of times people don't even understand what operations is, this podcast is definitely gonna be eye-opening for a lot of people, like different, different sectors of operations. So it's fantastic that you're doing this. I honestly had no idea what operations was before even joining Baron Fig I was just like, what? Like what, what, what do I do? As you get more involved, you kind of learn the ropes and you learn more things that need to get done. The thing that I keep on hearing in the past was, you don't need operations for your business. If you don't manufacture something, like why do you need operations? You gotta keep the train always moving and like a well-oiled machine. And also another thing that I kept on hearing was that a college degree in operations or manufacturing, that you need a college degree in the field for your business. And for me personally, I had no experience in this field at all. And even in stationary and you kind of just pick it up as you go. And you learn, you're learning...to build the wings as you fly? I forget the exact saying

Ariana (00:21:03) - I was gonna say “build the ship as you sail”. I don't know, is there some sort of mechanism that you're building while it's happening? I definitely agree with you. I went to school for acting and I am not doing that today. So, I didn't come out with that. I do think part of it is the way that your brain kind of thinks, kind of naturally ended up drawing me into operations. You know, I didn't seek it out either. And, and then over time a lot of the things I liked to do just ended up being under the title of operations, you know, and that's kind of how I developed that. I actually feel like operations people, when I worked with other people, it kind of develops just out of trying to solve problems.

Ariana (00:21:44) - Like people that I have found, get into operations, oftentimes they're trying to fix the way that something is working or fix a platform that isn't working for the team or collaborate better. And in trying to fix those problems, they start to find other problems to fix. And then you sort of have this domino of fixing problems and then all of a sudden they end up as like a Director of Operations, you know? And it's like, oh, ok. It's just cause cuz you see the domino effect of a problem and you wanna solve each piece to get something working right. An accordion of issues that you wanna get playing a nice tune. I definitely, I'm with you on that. I think that this is really a part of the reason the podcast was made too, is that operations takes a lot of different forms depending upon the size business that you're in or what you do.

Ariana (00:22:27) - For example, you know, you are making a physical product that looks very different than somebody who's building software, which looks very different than somebody who's providing a service. But the consistency is that there's all glue to to each of those and you sort of act like a glue between all the different facets. So, this gets to what do you think is the hardest part about operations? What is the thing that you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh my God, I don't wanna do this, but I know I’ve got to.

Jay (00:22:57) - One of the hardest part is the amount of things you have to juggle at a time. Dealing with production, dealing with, you know, making sure we have inventory, in stock, logistics for that inventory if we're outta stock. How can quickly, can we get it back in stock in their warehouse to sell the software for the team if something goes wrong. You know, jumping in and quickly fixing it. Management of running the company, making sure that the operation aspect is all running smooth. And kind of using the, the same analogy of the train. It's like you, you're building the tracks as the trainer is moving forward.

Ariana (00:23:37) - Do you have any tips on how you do prioritize? Because operations does oversee so much and every day does look very different. So have you found any sort of, I guess, tips that could help others in prioritizing those efforts?

Jay (00:23:50) - At, at Baron Fig we use the 80/20 principle. Joey was the one who like got me into that and it's like, what is going to make the biggest impact for the company? And then focus on that first.

Ariana (00:24:03) - Well, and I guess on the flip side, we've talked about the hardest part. What is the part that brings you the most gratification being in operations?

Jay (00:24:12) - I think the greatest joy of operations at Baron Fig is probably when a customer gets the product in their hands and they are ecstatic, they love the product. Cuz you're starting from the very beginning of design the product to making the product, to shipping the product to a warehouse, to then getting it to the customer. And it needs to happen all smoothly. That entire process needs to be a continuous movement. And then when they get it, they love it, they love opening it, they love feeling it, they love touching it, they love using it. And that is an awesome feeling.

Ariana (00:24:51) - I think part of the thing that always shocks me being a bystander to Baron Fig is how much people care about the products. Because ultimately these are notebooks, they're pens, you know, they're pencils, they’re bags, but people really care about the tools that they use and it's really important to them that it means something to them. I think about the limited additions that you all have and how people bargain for them on Facebook, you know, they're like trying to find a particular one because there's a meaning behind it that I think triggers something inside of them. Like a little kid happiness that always shocks me because it, it's a pen, but there is something that I guess it sparks creativity or I don't know, inspiration in them, and they've gotta get that, that always kind of put me, put me back being a, a watcher of this journey.

Jay (00:25:41) - It's, it's pretty interesting. Yeah. And for people who don't know, our limited editions, we make a certain quantity and once they're sold out, we never bring them back. So over the years, people really want a specific edition. And at one point there was kinda like a black market for them. Like people were trying for I don't know, four or five times a cost and it was like, wow, this is incredible, incredible feeling. Yeah.

Ariana (00:26:11) - Yeah. That, that blows my mind how a submarket could come from the main market just because of a particular thing. It's, it's really funny. So if someone came to you today and said, Jay, listen, I wanna get into operations, where should I start? What advice would you give them?

Jay (00:26:28) - I'd say to get your organization and planning game on point. There's a, there's a saying, I think, Alexander Bell, which is, he said, preparation is the key to success.

Ariana (00:26:44) - So when you plan something, planning leads the path to where you're gonna go. So if you can map out the steps to get there, it makes the path a lot easier to follow versus, building it as you're going, which of course you do, especially being at a smaller business. But if you can start to map those out earlier, the better.

Jay (00:27:04) - Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It just taking a step back and kind of seeing how you can prepare. It allows you to make the progress you want and then also reduce the friction and the stress for getting there.

Ariana (00:27:18) - Definitely, definitely. Jumping back into rapid fire questions, we're gonna end with some more human-centric questions about you Jay to learn things that have affected you in your life and, and bringing that into our lives. Here's my bad drum roll. That's my bad drum roll. First question is, what morning rituals do you start your day with every morning? Like without fail, you have to do these things to start your day.

Jay (00:27:43) - I wake up and I do a little stretch in the morning, and then also I have to walk my dog every day. So that's a little bit of a 30 minutes of exercise that I get every morning that helps just, you know, mentally prepare myself for the day.

Ariana (00:28:00) - And at the end of the day, how do you wind down? Like what are some things that get you into that sleepy place and let you let go of the day?

Jay (00:28:08) - I, I try not to look at my phone for at least like 20 minutes before bed. But you know, sometimes I obviously that's really hard at times, but just mentally force myself as best as I can to, to not look at it

Ariana (00:28:21) - For sure. What book are you currently reading?

Jay (00:28:25) - I'm reading The Laws of Creativity, actually. Joey's book.

Ariana (00:28:30) - How are you finding it?

Jay (00:28:32) - I've always told Joey this, he's a really good writer. It's really easy to digest and to relate to, and I feel like I'm learning a lot about different people who are not your traditional type of creativity. Yeah.

Ariana (00:28:51) - Yeah they're not necessarily labeled as a creative person, but they are creative in their own way. In your life so far, what do you think is the most important lesson that you've learned?

Jay (00:29:01) - To be honest and learnable.

Ariana (00:29:05) - Ooh, that's tough, but very important. Last question. What do you wanna be when you grow up?

Jay (00:29:11) - When I was younger I wanted to be an astronaut or an engineer. Going into space or building things and I feel like I'm kind of, I'm doing that. I'm building things with my hands and making them work. Yeah.

Ariana (00:29:26) - Building some, some beautiful things that everybody should check out. So where can people find you, Jay, if they wanted to look you up, should they check you out on LinkedIn? Where should they find ya?

Jay (00:29:36) - You can find me on LinkedIn, Jay Desai or you can also look at my, my website, jaydesaibuilds.com or on Baron Fig, baronfig.com.

Ariana (00:29:46) - Perfect. Jay thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us, also for really getting me to understand what engineering actually is. You know, it took 35 years but we got there. A major thanks to our wonderful audience for listening to Secret Ops. Please follow us wherever you find your podcast and check us out at secret-ops.com. We'll see you next time.