Ariana (00:00:07) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of business operations. One episode at a time. I'm your host Ariana Cofone, and today's guest is Hannah Kramer, people business partner at The Experimental Group. Hannah, such a pleasure to have you on Secret Ops.

Hannah (00:00:24) - Ah, my pleasure to be here with you, Ariana.

Ariana (00:00:27) - So, so much to dive into today, cuz this is the first time we're really gonna be focusing on the people operations side of the business world. So before we dive into your role as a people business partner, let's talk about how you even got to doing this kind of work. Can you take us through where your journey started and, and how you got to where you are today?

Hannah (00:00:47) - Absolutely. And the, the best way to sum it up is a complete and total accident.

Hannah (00:00:55) - My first job, out of college was hosting at an Italian restaurant. And, well I was going to grad school and then I realized grad school wasn't for me. I quit grad school and then ended up getting promoted to a manager at the restaurant, which was a crazy journey, but it was just very fortunate that I had somebody that saw something in me and, some just raw potential. So, from there I learned all of the operations of a restaurant and spent two years just learning the HR, finance, general operations of things. And then I moved to New York and kind of continued in the food world of corporate catering sales because I thought I liked sales and I learned along the way. That's not quite my thing. The funny thing was I realized I enjoyed reconciling receipts more than I did actually, doing my job.

Ariana (00:01:53) - Yep. I feel you.

Hannah (00:01:55) - From there I decided I, I wanted to go back into the, the restaurant world and was lucky enough to get connected to go and be an office manager for a Michelin star Japanese restaurant. And from there I worked with a couple of different restaurant groups, more in that office management type of thing. And for a lot of restaurants, office managers just are very operational in many ways. And it encompasses HR, finance, reservations, just depending on where that is. And with that I was able to also be on the opening team of a couple of different places as well. So I got to get that experience of how do things open, how do you build things from scratch? And for those of you that have been in hospitality, especially in openings, it's trial by fire, which is honestly my preference and it's the best way to learn. So after a couple groups, I decided I wanted to try consulting a little bit on my own and was working part-time or consulting for some smaller restaurants. And one of them happened to be, with the Experimental Groups company that was in New York. And I've been with them for five years and then recently just moved over to London to oversee their HR for their UK and US locations.

Ariana (00:03:13) - Wow. It's interesting for me, I think it's really important that people when they're growing up work three kinds of jobs, retail, customer service, and some job in the food industry. I feel like you've worked every job at some point in the food industry. So, so I guess what is it about that industry that really draws you in? Are you part foodie? Is it the operational puzzle pieces and you like solving problems? All of the above?

Hannah (00:03:41) - It's funny cause I think about that sometimes. Most people I know get into the restaurant industry because they love food. The more I think about it, the more I've realized I love restaurants. I love the whole thing together. I love the service. I love the food, I love the wine. I love the atmosphere during, during the meal, and everything that goes with it. So I am a big lover of restaurants and that's dive bar to Michelin Star and, and everything in between. I do also love the problem solving. I didn't think I did. And then I realized, when I got away from it for a little while, I was like, no, I actually really miss how fun this is.

Ariana (00:04:21) - Well, and I also know that you have a background in theater and having been a server back in the day and a host and a coat check person, I've done a a ton of jobs within the industry too. It's, it's quite performative.

Hannah (00:04:33) - Yes. It definitely is. Honestly I view service as a show. You're getting ready, it's that whole preparation and then you're on, and then it's the wind down after very similar to doing that. I haven't done service in, in a little while, but I still, appreciate that aspect of it and all the hard work that goes into. So I'm a little more on the behind the scenes versus on stage these days.

Ariana (00:05:00) - So I guess this gets more into your current role. And again, we're diving into people operations here cause we can do a whole human resources, you know, people side of things. But specifically thinking about all of the gears that make people operations turn, can you bring to life what being a people business partner means within the business that you're working for? Cause that might be a, a new title for some listeners.

Hannah (00:05:23) - Sure. So for those of you that aren't familiar, the title it evolved from HR Business Partner, which has been around for a while. I think one thing that we've seen it was slow growing and then during Covid definitely changed was the shift in what human resources or people teams are and what they do and what their function is. I personally never liked the title Human Resources. I avoided it for as long as I possibly could. And then with this evolution of being a people team or being a people person, I've really taken that. So I view my role as the people business partner, as somebody who is a thought partner to the leaders in the company. I help solve problems and consult. And then I'm looking at the overall picture of things strategically. I'm saying, okay, how is everybody doing? Where do we want to go to go? And what do we need to do to get there? So thinking of it, you know, similar things to how HR works, but bringing it more into that operational focus of things. And there are different people that have different meanings of it, both in operations and in HR. This is just what I have found for me in this company. And in this role.

Ariana (00:06:38) - Do you think at that more strategic high level people consulting view that you approach things from a problem-first mindset or from an opportunity-mindset, you know, meaning again, something is gone wrong or rogue and you've gotta work on that thing? Or is it really about, okay, this is where we want to go in a year, let's figure out how we get there at, at that level. Where would you lean more towards?

Hannah (00:07:06) - I think it's a really great question and I think, from my perspective, in order to be successful, you have to do both. Because you have to acknowledge what is actually there and what problems need to be solved and what needs need to be met. But at the same time, having that vision and saying, this is where we want to go. These are the problems we have now, or these are the issues. Or even if, let's say it's something brand new and there's no problems or issues having a direction. I think all of us, most of us function best when we have a goal or a target or something. So even if it's something that evolves or changes, just having that idea of where you want to be. And even, you know, that's where you find the magic along the way as well. Cause things can pop up, things can evolve and things can change. But I think it's both of those things working together that makes you the most successful and, and the company most successful.

Ariana (00:07:59) - That makes sense. And, looking at your lens, because you're looking at global people operations, you're navigating, a whole other layer, right? If you're just doing people operations in one country, it looks one way, but you're looking at many different countries. So how does that add to the complexity of what you're doing? And I guess the fun of it too. Cause I'm sure it's a blast sometimes.

Hannah (00:08:24) - It's been really interesting. So I've been in London for the last three months and you know, we have London, most of our properties are in London, and then we have one that's in the countryside and then we have the property in New York. So looking at all of those, and the interesting thing is just understanding the differences in culture as subtle as they may be, or the mentality of, of how people work. And one of the things I really love about the company is how international it is. So even with the teams in London, I have people from all over Europe and some from all over the world. And that also brings in a different complexity of saying, okay, if there's somebody I need to motivate. Thinking about where they come from, what works with them, and then how things can, can work together. So it's problem solving on a, on a more emotionally intelligent scale. I would say.

Ariana (00:09:21) - That's a really good point because I think about having worked for solely US-based team, you know, we're looking at culture under the lens of the US, now that being said, states have its own vibe and they bring that into it. But when I worked with a more global team, a team, mostly based out the UK and Europe, it's like almost the pool of options, you know, quadrupled or, you know, multiplied by like tenfold. Because all of a sudden now you have all these different ways of living and these different options that weren't necessarily present because you weren't living it every day, which I found exciting. Like, oh, I could do it this way, or you all take a whole day off or a whole week off, or this is, you know, like that really changed my perspective on how you oversee the people side of the business

Hannah (00:10:12) - For sure. And I think that's a really incredible gift about working in companies or having that opportunity to be in companies that have that global reach. Because going in and being open and listening and not thinking, this is the way I've always done things. This is the way we do things here, but think, okay, this is how things have been done in these circumstances. Let me learn and see how other people do them in their circumstances. And is there something that works better overall? And also sometimes realizing that the same answer can't work overall. And being able to acknowledge what's going to be most successful for the team. And that whole give and take of everything,

Ariana (00:10:51) - It adds complexity, but it also adds a whole suite of options at the same time. So a day in the life of Hannah Kramer, you wake up...what hits your plate first? What does your day look like? Do you balance it with meetings, platform integrations? Give us a day in the life.

Hannah (00:11:11) - You know, I get this question from a lot of people and I never know how to answer it.

Hannah (00:11:18) - I have some things that are set and you know, I do check-ins with, the immediate people I work with, at the beginning of the day, go through emails and kind of prioritize. When I think of the work that I do, I think of it more in quarterly goals and then break everything down from there. Through the years of doing this, I'm just able to prioritize and compartmentalize and kind of chart everything in my head about what needs to happen in the order of things. The person I'm working with right now, I'm teaching her how to do that. And it's been a really interesting exercise of going, where was I, you know, 12, 15 years ago, starting my career, how did I get where I am now and what steps did I use to to do that? So it's been a really interesting exercise of reminding myself how I built that, that type of thing to where I am now.

Ariana (00:12:14) - That knowledge base that only really, I think especially in people operations, I found that I learned the most by failing in people operations. Because when you make a mistake, you usually don't make it twice cuz you never forget what happened. That's been an interesting, when I think about, okay, where I started in my career and where I am now, especially within the people side of it, it's like, oh man, a lot of those lessons were learned through mistakes and then I created a different way of being able to approach that. So I'm, I'm sure that's part of also the toolbox that you don't even realize. Like, I know that now because of this one instance that happened.

Hannah (00:12:54) - For sure, for sure. And you know, I've definitely had some jobs that were a little rougher, but I learned the most from those. And I think another thing you've learned in people ops is resilience.

Ariana (00:13:05) - Definitely, especially in the last two, three years, you had to learn that tenfold. Now before we get into the operational trifecta of people, process and technology, I'm gonna ask, an Ariana little kid curiosity question, which is, what was it like working for a Michelin star restaurant? I'm just really, gosh darn curious

Hannah (00:13:28) - I've actually, I've worked for a couple. I have to say I've been very blessed that everywhere I've worked has had really fantastic food, Michelin starred or not. But I'll, you know, I'll tell you the first experience at the, when I worked at the Japanese one. I was just very unfamiliar with Japanese cuisine. And the, the, the chefs there were just incredible and amazing to, understand their culture, how things worked and how they worked in their kitchen and how that affected the food. And it really taught me for the first time of understanding the whole story, everything that goes into making the meal with it. It was just this really amazing experience that sparked...I always loved, you know, I love a good meal, but it sparked that desire to have more and explore more and just continue to try new things. Which you know, I know a lot of people do that in many ways, but it was, it was a very intimate way of doing that, especially when it's your coworkers, your colleagues and I actually still keep in touch with some of those chefs as well.

Ariana (00:14:40) - Let's talk about technology cuz I'm very curious, what is underpinning all of the things that you're doing from a people operations standpoint and what kind of decisions you're making around technology to manage a global workforce?

Hannah (00:14:55) - That's a really great question and it has evolved a lot with people operations. I think the most obvious of the HR technologies is your payroll system. And that's something that has, as long as I have been involved, that one has always been there. So one of the jobs I was at, from a couple years ago was at a food nonprofit. And that was a little more still involved in hospitality, but a little more on the corporate side of things. So I had the ability to take a look at some of the different, HRS systems, you know, thinking about, performance management and the bigger scope of what an end-to-end payroll system looks like. You know, one of the things, that makes things easier is can you do all your onboarding online? Which for many, many years, all onboarding, it was on paper. And it really does help save processes and time in hospitality because usually once you hired somebody, you wanna get them in, it's a very different type of orientation than you would have in a corporate job or a desk job or something like that.

Ariana (00:16:07) - What do you think is the big differentiator? Is it because the quicker you can get in the space, the faster you'll get onboarded? So it's about collapsing down the more formal onboarding and getting into the hands-on onboarding?

Hannah (00:16:20) - I think, I think so. I think it's that, you know, in one aspect, time is money too. A lot of the, the skills...the best way you can learn things is by doing them. Yes, you have to learn a menu, you have to learn the steps of service and types of things. But really the best thing you can do is get in there and, and get going and start learning and then start tasting things and all of that. So I need to always figure out how to best support, our teams and in bringing people in. And then once you get to a bigger company saying, okay, how do we still maintain the touch of an orientation and making sure people understand the history of the company, where their part fits in and how everything connects with each other, which is one of the things I'm working on now with a global company is, how do I make sure that that that connection is there and that it's felt and that people feel part of that whole versus siloed, somewhere else.

Hannah (00:17:19) - So it's just a natural evolution of a growing place.

Ariana (00:17:23) - This may be a good time to go back to something that you said just to bring it home for people that aren't in this every day. So an HR CRM is a platform that essentially is changing how the people team operates. So in a lot of cases it obviously manages your payroll, so how you're paid, whether you're salary, part-time, hourly, etc. It can give you your benefits in some platforms you can track your time off, you can do your onboarding. Some HR CRMs actually connect to an applicant tracking manager for the recruiting side too. Sometimes your HR CRM will give you access to the digital tools that you need. And so this is really, I think what's moved most in the last decade, two decades from a technology standpoint is, like you said, it's gone from completely paper manual, into this digital space, which is truly ideal for managing a global workforce. But it's also quite complex because there's so many companies that do it. And finding the right one for your particular company needs could be, you know, that's its own thing. I definitely have worked with clients that every single one needs something different and there's no one that solves them all. There's no platform. That's the end all solution.

Hannah (00:18:43) - And I think that's one of the best parts though, is that you have the option. You know, I remember back in the day when it was only ADP that was the payroll company or it was only open table. And now, you know, I think that's a good problem to have and there are some really wonderful, talented people out there that it's their job to help you findwhich one works best with what you need.

Ariana (00:19:05) - That's a, that's a good point. I think I at that moment where it's like so many options, where do you go with, but that is a good thing to have. Having different options available depending upon your company and what your business does.

Hannah (00:19:18) - And one thing, especially I think, relevant to operations people that's different than anywhere else is that a lot of times our teams aren't at a desk, they aren't by a computer. So when we're thinking through what system we need to use, it either has to be very mobile friendly or something that they can use in a way that that doesn't take away from their job. And that's a very tricky thing and that's very specific to operations that, you know, when I'm looking at a payroll company, I wanna look at who created it. Like is it people that come from an operations background versus people that come from a desk job background And what companies are using it? Is it companies that have a lot more people in the field and get that feedback and evolve it? Or is it people that you know and there's a place for everything. But it is definitely one of those challenges that I feel operations people face in a different way than, you know, non-operations.

Ariana (00:20:17) - That's such a good point cuz you know, when I was doing web development, one of the tools that people said when you're selecting different platforms to use or different technical tools to use is to see how much that particular company gets support. Meaning how many times are they updating the code? How many times are they pushing out updates to the larger team? And in fact, that's what you have to look for now within people operations tools. Cuz if you have a tool that's stagnant, the workforce is changing so rapidly that in a year it'll be out of date. So then this tool that you migrated your whole team to is sort of stuck in the mud because it can't get additional features or it can't work in a smarter way because this just doesn't, doesn't have the maintenance it needs to have or the support to get it to where it needs to go next. That is a really good point. Oh man. So many considerations. Which gets maybe into the me the more process side of people ops. So you've got your technical tools. How does that inform your processes? So does your technology inform your processes? Do your processes inform your technology? I'm guessing it's both, but what do you think comes first? The chicken or the egg?

Hannah (00:21:33) - It varies from situation to situation. Since I tend to be, what I refer to as a builder versus a sustainer, I'm usually brought in or I'm there to implement something, to create something, to refine processes. So for me, I look at what exists, what's going to make things better, and then I try to match the technology to the processes that I want to put in place and work with them together. You know, I think when you're starting out something or putting in an infrastructure or you have the opportunity to change the technology, that that's how it's gonna be informed. Cuz there are definitely places where something exists, you have to work with what exists. So then it's okay that informs how the processes are done. But for, regardless of what I'm doing, I'm always thinking, how can I make things more efficient?

Hannah (00:22:21) - How can I make it easier for all people involved, both employees and employers? Because when things are easy, it's going to be better for everybody because the people will be not intimidated to try something or you don't have to deal with things not getting done. Cause that's always my question. I'm like, why are you not using something? Or why is this not not happening? And a lot of times it's not wanting to admit that they need help with something or it's too difficult or it takes too much time. So always looking at that why for that, and that's usually what the underlying issue is.

Ariana (00:22:56) - You must have to navigate change management like a gymnast, you're doing back flips, front flips, when it comes to change management, because I think especially within people operations, it's so important that change is handled well. What are some tips that you found throughout the years to help make those shifts easier?

Hannah (00:23:22) - That's a really great question. And I've definitely been in times where I wish I knew things that I did later. I think as much clear communication as you can give in honesty, when you don't have an answer of something like saying, I know this is something we're still waiting on, I have not lost that. It's still in process. I'm still waiting for things to be figured out. I want to make sure that I'm giving you the clearest, most final answer that I can. So just please understand that. And I feel like that has gone such a long way. Another thing I've found is really helpful, and this is one that I've noticed in some other companies I've worked with, it’s not specific to them.

Hannah (00:24:08) - I always want to sit down and ask for feedback and ask opinions and ask for solutions from the teams. And that creates such a sense of buy-in with them. And sometimes you get some really wonderful gems and even if you get nothing from that session, they remember that. They remember that they were heard, that they were involved in it and then they feel a part of it. And that's something that has really helped, when I've been able to work with senior leadership to do that. That's helped to make everything go smoother even when there are issues because they know that they're being considered. And when you have people on board and bought in and just that, that whole engaged aspect and essentially belonging as well, that's what makes change successful.

Ariana (00:24:56) - I feel like we just covered the people part of the show. So just to recap, saying, I don't know, but here's what I do know and here's what we're working on. And being transparent about that just creates an open communication, a place where you can be honest, but also not over promise. Cuz that never goes, well, let's be real. That never goes well, overpromise, underdeliver? Nope. The other part with change management is when you're getting into change, although we know at the heart that these are the three things, if you do this, it's gonna make your life a lot easier. Ultimately, starting with the people that you're serving and asking what they're looking for, what their need, what problems that they're trying to solve. And then going from there is really the way to go instead of coming in and saying, these will solve your problems. Instead of ask what problems do you wanna get solved? Have you tried to do that before? And instead engaging them in that way. So then there's ownership in the process and there's trust in you as an individual. Trust is at the heart of it all.

Hannah (00:26:03) - Absolutely.

Ariana (00:26:06) - Now let's get into the inside scoop. And I'm putting on my glasses just for this. So this is where we talk about the stuff that maybe gets unsaid, the good, the bad, the how to do. So what do you think people get wrong about people operations? So you sit down into a meeting you’re introduced as the people, business partner. What do you think people get wrong?

Hannah (00:26:29) - I think a lot of it is, not understanding the importance of it. And also just, that there's a lot of, misconceptions about HR. Because HR people ops really do go hand in hand. In my perspective, people ops is the evolution of HR. As to this day, I still get, oh, you work in HR? If I ask to meet with someone, I have to say, “you're not in trouble”. It's just, I wanna talk through some things. But I think that thinking that people operations as a luxury or something that's superfluous, not really understanding how essential it is in every aspect of business. And in that regard too, your people, operations people have to know every aspect of the business in order to be good at what they do and be effective.

Ariana (00:27:23) - That's a good point. I guess as a side note, how do you onboard into new businesses since you do have to know so much of the end to end of what the business does? How have you, I guess, what are some pro tips that you've discovered over the years of how to get onboarded into the ways of working with the business?

Hannah (00:27:42) - One of the things that helps is, I've mainly stayed in hospitality because I understand how things function. You know, I understand what services I understand, how bookkeeping and invoices and all of that work. So really making sure that, whatever industry you're in, knowing all the nuances of it and being very curious. I have worked outside hospitality as well. So when I do that, I ask a lot of questions. I talk to people. I listen to people. The more you can just sit down and ask questions to every level. And that's so critical. Every single level has something different to say. They see something different and they have a perspective that you won't get from it as well. So learning how to listen and really listen and then being curious. I'm always learning. I'm always listening. I'm always sending you podcasts. I'm asking you for episodes.

Ariana (00:28:45) - Yep!

Hannah (00:28:47) - That constant curiosity both within your field, and in industry and outside.

Ariana (00:28:53) - Oh man, that, yeah. Never stop learning, never stop being curious. Never stop asking questions and don't assume, right? Definitely don't assume. So this gets to more of the difficulty in people operations. What do you think is the hardest part? What's the thing that just is the tangliest bit?

Hannah (00:29:13) - People.

Ariana (00:29:15) - I totally served that one up to you.

Hannah (00:29:21) - It's tricky, but it's the best and, and the worst part. Having a theatrical background I think has been one of the most helpful things in navigating this. For those of you that have ever studied acting theory or theater, what you do when you're breaking down a character, is you're studying, okay, what is the back history of this person? What is motivating this choice? Or even looking at the entire story, you look at the cause and effect. How does one person get here and get there? So whenever I'm dealing with people in any sort of situation, I'm bringing that perspective into it. Whether it's a disciplinary issue, whether it's a process issue or it's an argument or mediation, I'm looking at the people, I'm thinking, okay, what do I know about them? What do I know about their roles and what do I know about what's going on? And then seeing if I can identify a root cause of that, or something that knowing immediate circumstances or things like that. How can I help shift this into a place where we can all be productive or we can resolve whatever is going on?

Ariana (00:30:31) - Yeah, and we talk about this, I think in every single type of operational role, the problem that comes to the surface is not probably the real problem. Where the problem is, is five layers deep and the more that you can understand the human element of it and empathize with it, usually the faster you get to some sort of solution that actually is solving the pain points that people are feeling. It is tricky though, and I do think the arts do prepare you to do some high level human analysis, just to get you in the right direction, which, like you said, the people part is the toughest part. It's also the greatest joy. Are there any other parts of people operations that really bring you pure little kid happy joy?

Hannah (00:31:17) - Whenever I can take something that's inefficient and I can put process in place that either cuts the time significantly or just makes everybody's lives easier, and then they come back to me going, this was amazing.

Ariana (00:31:36) - It's like I will work a whole day on developing some sort of automation and then I'll press a button and show my husband what it does, and he is like, cool. And I'm like, no, no, you don't understand, but it's those moments that you've solved something with the easiest way to implement it that just really gets you going.

Hannah (00:31:51) - Exactly. Exactly.

Ariana (00:31:54) - So last bit for the inside scoop, which is, if somebody wants to get into people operations, where should they begin? Where would you recommend them getting started?

Hannah (00:32:04) - In operations itself? Well, it's a twofold question. I would say pick your industry first and then work into people operations there. If you want to do that a little more, I would say go a straight HR route and get the HR background that you can then move into operations. From my perspective and from the people I've met in a higher level HR operations, a lot of them have an operational background and it's very helpful. Also making sure that you have a good understanding of, I say finance, but I mean that as a loose term. But, money in, money out and, and, P&L statements, that’s very, very helpful because it's going to help inform everything else that you do. I'm not a big numbers person, but that knowledge is really essential for creating your budget, being able to help advise on costs, knowing the health of a business. So I think that is essential for anything that you do.

Ariana (00:33:13) - That's a great pro tip. Learning how to read a P&L statement, just digging into that human, you know, people, human cost can sometimes become a black hole and then it's really hard to make decisions if you don't drill down and figure out what is causing what. And that piece, I will say, the more that I learned that the more empowered I felt to really not only make a better situation for my team, but also to make stronger decisions about the business operationally. That's a really good point, especially from the people lens.

Hannah (00:33:48) - Also with that, one of the most difficult things about being HR or people is a lot of times it's justifying, in many ways why you need something, why something's important. And, one of the arguments I've found very helpful through the years in that financial scope, you know, a lot of times companies are saying we need to keep revenue generators. Revenue generators are the most important thing. I view people operations as revenue saver. So the more that you're able to look at a P&L or be able to look at your numbers of things and show that even though you're not necessarily bringing in money...where you've saved money can change the entire perspective around your place in the organization, your team, and any funding or additional budget that you get. So it's that, negative space that you're kinda looking at that's not so obvious, but if you're really think through it can change everything.

Ariana (00:34:45) - Absolutely. I mean, we could have a whole episode just talking about that because of how, gosh darn important that is. But not just looking at, okay, what's generating revenue, but what is saving us revenue? What's saving us time? What's saving us also doing manual work? All of these things add up into a healthy operating business. And oftentimes the solution of things includes a little bit of everything, right? It's very rarely like, do this one thing and you'll save yourself X amount. No, you have to do like 30% of a couple things to really contribute to the solution. But that's a great point. Now we're gonna take off our operations hats if that's even possible cuz they're part of our DNA. And we're gonna get to know about you, Hannah, in the rapid fire questions. I'm gonna list you some quick questions, answer them as a human, and we will wrap up this episode of Secret Ops. Okay. Drum roll. What morning rituals do you start with?

Hannah (00:35:46) - I have recently been doing athletic greens, which I love. Then I do coffee and then while I'm doing that, I have a podcast in, so one of my favorites “And that’s my morning” as I'm heading into work.

Ariana (00:36:00) - Please get outta my brain. Thank you. the second thing, how do you wind down at the end of the day?

Hannah (00:36:06) - Oh, I'd love to say it's something fancy, but it's good old fashioned Netflix binging. I can decompress and it lets me not enjoy and not think. And, and then yeah, just wind my brain down.

Ariana (00:36:20) - I hear that. Any good shows that you're watching?

Hannah (00:36:23) - Well now that I'm back in the, the US for a little while, I'm trying to catch up on all the things that I can't stream in the UK. Like I just watched the second season of White Lotus and I think more recently one of the, one of the best things I've seen lately was 1899 on Netflix. It's a sci-fi series. Really fantastic. It's really well done.

Ariana (00:36:49) - I'm gonna put that on my list. What book are you currently reading or listening to?

Hannah (00:36:55) - Ooh, I am currently reading, one that I've said I was gonna read for a while and I listened to his podcast is I Will Teach You to Be Rich, Ramit Sethi. And I apologize if I pronounce his name wrong. Big fan of his podcast and listen to his advice over the years. So now I'm finally reading his book.

Ariana (00:37:13) - What is your favorite quote? If there has been one that stuck with you throughout the years, what would that be?

Hannah (00:37:19) - So this is actually one that was on the locker room wall of my middle school that has always stuck with me is make an effort, not an excuse. And that's just something I've kind of always lived by.

Ariana (00:37:33) - Hmm. Wow. Middle school. Pivotal. So far in your life, what do you think is the most important lesson you've learned?

Hannah (00:37:40) - Ooh, that's a good question. Once you're through the emotions of things, take a step back, look at the perspective, find the gift.

Ariana (00:37:51) - All right, we're gonna put that on a pillow. That was good. Lastly, what do you wanna be when you grow up?

Hannah (00:37:58) - Oh, I still wanna be an opera singer. It's the side career, but I still wanna make it happen one day.

Ariana (00:38:08) - Hannah, just for context, is an incredible opera singer. I've seen her perform many times and it's absolutely stunning. So I think that you are an opera singer, and that you already have grown up to do that. Last but not least, people are hearing your advice, hearing your brain manifest on the Secret Ops podcast. Where can they find you?

Hannah (00:38:30) - Probably LinkedIn is the best place to find me. Hannah Kramer. And I think I have, SHRMCP in my title cause I know, Hannah Kramer is a common name. But yeah, best place.

Ariana (00:38:42) - I'll also put it in the description if you want to find Hannah and connect with her. It is such a pleasure to speak with you. You are my rock for all people operations things, so I'm really grateful that you brought your knowledge on the show today to give back to others. So thank you so much for your time, Hannah, and for your generosity. For those listening to the Secret Ops podcast, thank you so much for supporting. Please follow us wherever you find your podcast and check us out at secret-ops.com. We'll see you next time.