Amy (00:00:02) - For me, sales is like the core way to understand really what is unique about your business and what people are willing to actually sign on the dotted line and give you real money for. And so you can't….I don't think you can really grow as a business if you don't know those core things like what your product market fit is, why people want to spend their time and money working with you.

Ariana (00:00:29) - Welcome to Secret Ops, the podcast uncovering the world of operations one episode at a time. I'm your host, Ariana Cofone, and today's guest is Amy Kalnoki, co-founder and CEO of BitWave. Now, for those who don't know, BitWave is a finance platform designed specifically for businesses to manage cryptocurrency tax, accounting, compliance and many more components. So this episode dives into the world of blockchain, which was exciting for me because a lot has changed within the last couple of years, and a lot has changed within the five years since BitWave was founded. So Amy generously unpacks what is happening within blockchain, why we now refer to it as digital assets, and how you build operations within an industry that is ever changing.

Ariana (00:01:20) - So let's jump in. Amy, I'm so excited to hop on. I feel like this is such a treat to not only talk to another operator who has worked in so many different specializations, but also in a field and in an industry that is changing so fast, it's almost hard to keep up. So I feel like we're going to really learn from your experience and your knowledge today. So thank you so much for being here.

Amy (00:01:44) - Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to chat.

Ariana (00:01:47) - Yay! Well, let's jump into your experience since that's what I'm most excited about because you've really had a journey. And I'm curious about the thread line through it and where you began. So, so guide us through that.

Amy (00:02:00) - So I studied business in undergrad. I always kind of knew generally I had this concept that I want to run a business, like I want to do business. And I feel like when you're young it's so hard to really, like, know exactly what you want to do. And unless you're one of those people who just always knew, like specifically, I want to be in this like one science field or something like that. So I always wanted to run a business. I wanted to have my own business. And if you had asked me back then, like, what kind of business? I wouldn't have been able to tell you. So my journey kind of just started in, you know, just getting a first job. And I really started in sales and marketing more. And then it wasn't until I got into startups that I really developed like a broader skill set and that I think set me up for coming into an operations role, because when you're at a small startup, you end up wearing so many hats, you're constantly being asked to do so many different things because the team is small. And that, I think, is kind of when I think about a COO or just operations in general…that to me is what I think, like somebody who is willing to put on a million different hats and like, “okay, today your finance okay, today your HR, okay. Oh my gosh, now you're this”. And so because when you're at a smaller company you don't have leaders in those roles. You're not big enough to warrant having someone to just take on, you know, whatever that compliance like here at BitWave I currently run compliance because our compliance requirements are not broad enough and heavy enough to warrant bringing on someone to do that as a full time. So I kind of lead a cross-functional team that all pitches in to make sure we've done all of our compliance requirements. But, you know, is that necessarily something that every person in operations does? No, oftentimes that's under legal and under a very different kind of job purview. But when you're at a startup and you do operations, you do a little bit of it all.

Ariana (00:04:12) - Well, a question for you because…I find that my skill set that's the weakest is marketing for sure. And then sales. So that's where you started your career. So what things did you gain within that lens that really helped you sort of funnel into operations?

Amy (00:04:30) - Well I mean in nonprofits, you don't worry about trying to make money, but a business, the core is you have to start making money pretty early on. And sales is such an important piece to that. And the marketing is a piece to sales because no one knows about the company or knows what you do, you can't really sell it very effectively. And so when I think about sales, it's just it's bringing the revenue in the door. It's such an important piece. And you really have to understand the core of whatever your business is…for us, it's software, the value, the core values of why someone would pay money for this. And it helps you fully understand the business and it helps you, I think, optimize internally on what people want because you can build a really awesome product. But if no one's interested in buying it because it doesn't meet any needs, it doesn't solve any problems. You know, you've wasted your time. And so for me, sales is like the core way to understand really what is unique about your business and what people are willing to actually sign on the dotted line and give you real money for. And so you can't…I don't think you can really grow as a business if you don't know the product market fit like, why people want to spend their time and money working with you.

Ariana (00:06:00) - Well, and it makes sense to that. That's not just something for the sales and marketing side. That is actually a north star for the entire business, right? Because everybody should be able to have a clear understanding of like, what are we making decisions for? Like what are we helping our customers to do? And being really clear about that and having that experience, I'm sure has been really helpful in scaling a team and developing out that operational foundation for any business that you're a part of.

Amy (00:06:26) - Yeah. And so much of sales too, is like negotiation and objection handling like someone is it's in everyone's nature to say “I don't need this or I'm skeptical”. So just being able I think early on I was good in my career to learn sales and a sales process because, you know, you don't coming out of college or whatever you don't have negotiation skills, you don't know how to present something in a way that is understandable. But now, you know, at a startup, we fund raise, we have capital. Like I think back, that's like giving a sales presentation. Basically, you're selling your company, your business and why someone would want to invest in it. And so it was good, broad, I think foundational skills. But yeah.

Ariana (00:07:12) - So along the journey you also touched base in other specializations. Was it customer success that I'm remembering? That also kind of piqued my interest because I thought, oh my God, you're sort of marrying all of these things together into now, I'm sure, how you're viewing operations. But what were some key takeaways from that role and what you're bringing into what you do today?

Amy (00:07:34) - Yeah. Well, you worked so hard to get the customer and then you have to keep them happy too. It's like, you know, right now we have all these people who are paying us. Oh gosh, we've got to really deliver on what we've sold them and keep them happy. And so that's kind of…like what I was saying at the beginning, it was just at my previous startup. It's not like I just had to do customer success because we needed it, we had customers. And so I just got pulled into it. One day I was like, okay, we need this role. And so yeah, finding a good process for getting tickets in and figuring out what the issues were and getting that to engineering, I mean, that is a challenge and a process. And to scale that, you have to have some good foundations in there. But honestly, it's just again, it's listening to what people are saying and making sure that you're following up with them and getting their problems solved.

Ariana (00:08:31) - So how are all of these lessons and parts of your journey fusing into what you're doing with Bit Wave today?.

Amy (00:08:38) - Yeah. So you know, we're in such a unique space. So we make a digital asset accounting platform. So bookkeeping, tax tracking, revenue recognition, the whole software suite for businesses that are transacting in crypto. But the thing about that is it's a really new industry in a new space. So my background was enterprise SaaS software. So we're kind of bringing that to what businesses will need when they're interacting with this whole brand new thing. But the digital asset accounting space, the guidelines, the regulations, everything is constantly shifting. If you ask like two different CPAs, you get 3 or 4 different answers on what correct treatment is sometimes for different things. And so I think having that kind of broad set of, “okay, today, it's one thing and tomorrow it's another”. And having that mindset of like, “that's a fun challenge” as opposed to I think there are some people that, that would drive absolutely crazy, like working in an industry.

Ariana (00:09:35) - Yes.

Amy (00:09:37) - Where the goalpost is here, but okay, there were new phase guidelines and now the goalpost is over here for like the software that we need to do and what our customers are going to use it for and how they're going to report with it. I think that's fun and exciting because it feels like we're very much at the cutting edge of this industry. But I realize that some people would just think that that is like heartburn central.

Ariana (00:10:02) - Well, I think from the outside, you know, having been in the startup world, the highs and lows are very high and very low.. Like I know that feeling. And then I think being in an industry that also is going through highs and lows, at least from the outside, it almost seems like, wow, you have to have a very thick skin to navigate this or maybe a high tolerance for it. Do you, do you think so being in it, or is that just like a misconception I have on that side?

Amy (00:10:29) - Startups are definitely a roller coaster and marathon. So it's like a marathon, not a sprint. And it's a roller coaster at the same time. And it's true. With startups, it's important to not get too high when things are going really great or too low when things aren't going great, because it's always going to oscillate between those two points. And so keeping a very long-term view of what needs to get done today and then where we're going in the future and, and knowing that, you know, a smaller setback is okay. Like that's part of the process here is really important. And I think that's something that you do have to learn because it is easy to get really, really excited about something that went well and then really down when something's not, not going as smoothly. But if it were easy, everyone would do it right. So startups are not easy. And so you have to kind of go in. Heads up knowing that there will be challenges.

Ariana (00:11:28) - So going to founding BitWave with you and Pat White.

Ariana (00:11:31) - First of all, how did you all know that you were this founding team? I love the business in the sense that it takes things that are incredibly important but probably very boring for people and makes it very accessible. So how did you sort of find that partnership, get this idea, build up this technology around it? What was that journey?.

Amy (00:11:54) - So Pat and I actually knew each other for a long time. My previous startup that I mentioned Synata, we co-founded that with two other co-founders. So there were the four of us and we had some, you know, employees and stuff like that. So we had previously done enterprise SaaS software. I learned about digital assets from Pat. He was very early into Bitcoin and actually that could start up that other one. We worked out of a co-working space that actually had electricity included as part of the monthly desk rental fee. So Pat brought a Bitcoin miner and plugged it in. And it was an open-concept space.

Amy (00:12:33) - And so it actually got kind of chilly in there, kind of an old warehouse and space in San Francisco. And so it functioned as a space heater for me because, you know, Bitcoin miners, they throw off a lot of heat. And so yeah that's how I first heard about Bitcoin. And for me it immediately resonated when I thought about the cross-border payments kind of use case of digital assets for folks who aren't as familiar, you know, you can transfer money peer to peer or B2B across borders because it kind of functions as a world currency without high exchange rates. Or when you think about something like a Western Union that takes such a huge fee for people who, a lot of folks, you know, come to the US, they work, they send money back home, and a huge fee is taken by Western Union and lost in exchange rates. And I think that's just crazy. And, you know, there are peer-to-peer and much cheaper solutions. And so I was really excited about digital assets and the potential to kind of rewire a lot of the financial system and a lot of the tech, the fintech that's out there that runs our large banks and everything is actually really old, if you think about it, it was all founded either before or during the first dot-com boom.

Amy (00:13:50) - So like banks and everything runs on 30 year old tech at this point. And so digital assets and blockchain technology to me is just a great tool to help kind of modernize some of that infrastructure that's out there.

Ariana (00:14:04) - Yeah. That's something that when I got into technology, I didn't really quite understand that a lot of the things that we rely on are these legacy code bases that are written in languages we don't even really write anymore. And the more you know, the scarier it is because you're like,” oh my gosh, nobody's learning these languages. How are we doing this?” And even though, you know, crypto and blockchain can feel scary and new, it's also like older technology that's being used in different ways as well and being rethought, which is also exciting. So I'm sure that all of those pieces coming together was a good foundation for then figuring out, “okay, this is how we want to navigate this into BitWave”. When you started to make the business, what were some key team members you knew you needed to bring on board to start the business?

Amy (00:14:55) - Yeah, so with me and Pat, it actually works really well. He handles all things product and engineering. He's a great software architect. And so I let him kind of run anything that's engineering and software and product related. And then I handle basically everything else. That's how we got started. So anything customer-facing of course, anything like operations and back-end. And so early on going back to what I said, like some of our first employees were salespeople, I think we had hired two engineers, a solutions architect person to work with customers implementing and a sales person. That was our earliest kind of like group of 5 or 6 employees, again, because net new customers and sales for startups is key. And so salespeople will actually be invested in and brought on pretty early on, which left a big operations kind of backlog for me because I was doing all of the compliance. We did so much growing during the pandemic that we actually pretty early on, just everyone worked from home, work-from-home-first remote kind of distributed team.

Amy (00:16:07) - But for compliance you have to register in a bunch of different states. You have tax filings in a bunch of different states. And so it's great to have the flexibility to be able to hire the best people no matter where they are based. But that brings on a whole workload. So I did HR until eventually we grew big enough and did enough hiring that. We brought on an HR person. For me, hiring I think is really important. And I always like to do it kind of slow and steady and find the right people when the job role is really, really needed. That’s kind of our guiding principle on the hiring and yeah, investing in sales up front.

Ariana (00:16:55) - Well, this gets us to the trifecta. So people, process, technology. The way to summarize operations when you're looking at people, I often get the question “when is the right time to hire?” And the answer I've gotten to some people is like “you hire when it hurts, like you hire right before it's super duper painful”. Is that the case for you and do you agree with that or do you disagree?And what are some qualities that you're looking for at this stage of the business in any new hire that's joining the business?

Amy (00:17:26) - So I think there's two ways. We always say like “hire when the knife wound is…you're like starting to bleed”. So yes certainly hire when it's painful and you just cannot do whatever it is that job role is anymore well, because I think you can always do different job roles part time. Like if it's like the fourth thing on your to do list, like you can get it done, but are you executing on that well? That's probably when you should hire someone. So you really need them. And you no longer have the bandwidth bandwidth to do that. Whatever that job role is sufficiently or I think it's also reasonable to hire people when there is a good chance that it will meaningfully move the business forward. And so I think you should hire when it's painful, but then also it's okay to make some bets on like, “hey, if we hire this business development person to go work on this region and this project” like that's there's a reasonable chance that we can unlock a whole new business there, that it's going to move us forward in a way that is not necessarily part of our business today. So it's okay to take some bets and hire some folks if there's a good chance that it could improve things in ways that maybe you aren't doing right now.

Ariana (00:18:48) - That's it's such a good point, because I think I saw that a lot with data analysts or data scientists where maybe the business didn't have that or they were doing very basic data analysis, but they knew that in hiring a more data focused person, even though it was like the first team member that would do that, that it could really scale what they're doing internally and externally. But you can see that in a lot of different ways. That's a super good point. Also, the point about doing something well, I've seen a lot of people that sort of do it and they're like, yeah, we're checking the box, but it's kind of like haphazard, lots of holes, maybe some business continuity risks in there. And so you got to be really honest with yourself and say like, all right, I'm sort of doing it. But like, is it time? Is it time for me to let go of this piece and give it to somebody who can really own and like, take this home?

Amy (00:19:39) - I Agree.

Ariana (00:19:40) - Now, when it comes to you, get your people onboarded. How does process factor into this whole world of BitWave? Because again, things are ever changing. But you're in a particular space where, you know, compliance is incredibly important. So how do you balance being flexible and rigid at the same time?

Amy (00:20:01) - Yeah it is tough. And add in that we're a remote team and everyone's kind of working from their own home office too.

Amy (00:20:08) - So I mean I think we're on Slack. We have a bunch of meetings as long as they're productive meetings. I'm actually a meeting fan when you're a work from home team, because it gives you a chance to actually talk to someone and not just type all day long on Slack, back and forth, or in an email and so I think from a process standpoint, making sure that we have things kind of documented and explained everything to everyone up front, and then always just encouraging people to ask questions if they're confused about the process or kind of what needs to get get done. I think we've done a really great job of having a very open company where people feel comfortable asking anything on slack. We have a very active general and questions and everything kind of open conversations. People propose fun crypto-like stuff or all the news that's going on in the space. And so having a venue and a forum for people to ask questions if they're ever confused about what a process should be, I think is really, really important.

Ariana (00:21:08) - That also gets into sort of something that popped into my brain, which is because of the industry that you're in. The educational piece of your team is probably super important. So posting news articles, posting updates, educating people on it, like I even noticed on your YouTube channel. You all have these sort of like small updates saying like, here's what this thing means. How does education sort of become a part of managing your people, training your people, also helping with, you know, refining processes? Where does that piece fit in?

Amy (00:21:38) - Oh, it's super important. We're always helping everyone stay up to date. We're lucky to hire a lot of folks who are like CPAs too, so they are usually up on all the latest and in the accounting world of any changes that are coming down the pike. And so getting them on, having them share their knowledge and expertise with folks on our team who maybe are not as skilled in accounting because that's not their job role or they're not working on that piece of the product.

Amy (00:22:09) - But as long as they know, because these things are so important to our customers, that having everyone be really up to date is, is really important. And so, yeah, we definitely spend time on that. And then also helping our customers and providing those resources to our customers because it is so ever, ever changing. We love having webinars where we'll invite some of, you know, experts in the space who we've worked with or partnered with, or are BitWave customers on to share their knowledge and expertise. And I think that's what's unique about the digital asset space is that everyone's really willing to share knowledge. And, and it's such a growing industry, and there's so much excitement in it that people are really, really willing to lend their time and their expertise in their knowledge. And so we try to help facilitate that.

Ariana (00:22:59) - So explain to m like I'm five mode, because I know that I'll have listeners who are going to hear digital assets and be like, what is that? And I think people actually know what it is, but they just don't know it by that term. Can you break it down for us? Like, what does digital asset actually mean?

Amy (00:23:13) - Yeah, for me, I use that term because it's a bit broader. So you can think of blockchain as the underlying technology. And then people have different types of tokens. So some tokens are NFTs, non-fungible tokens. It's a type of token, some or maybe a utility token or something that, like a large foundation of a blockchain, has been issued and that can function more of like a cryptocurrency. Or if you think of one of the core ones like Ethereum or Bitcoin, people really use those or stablecoins as forms of payments. So like a stablecoin is a coin that's pegged to something like the dollar. And so those are all different types of digital assets. So I use that term to kind of be more inclusive. Because if you just say cryptocurrency, someone might not think necessarily that it is an NFT because people aren't really using NFTs as a form of currency as they would be for a USDC, a stablecoin.

Amy (00:24:10) - And so digital assets, to me, is the most broad and inclusive term of all the different types of tokens and assets and things that people are building with blockchain technology.

Ariana (00:24:21) - When it comes to digital assets, have you seen…because BitWave has been happening for the last six years, maybe five years? Got it. So the digital asset space must have been so interesting to be a part of it in the last six years because it's ever changing. New things are happening. So has that definition evolved for you or has it remained the same?

Amy (00:24:45) - No, it's definitely evolved because at first when I first got into digital assets, it was Bitcoin. It was Eth. It was some of these core large foundations. You know then you have like the chain links and these big foundations that are working on their own. Layer one blockchain or layer two blockchains built on something like an Ethereum. And then we had the whole DeFi summer DeFi, you know, decentralized finance that spun up all these new projects and a whole new way to use blockchain and crypto. And then, you know, NFTs. And so, yeah, no, it's always evolving. And that's what I think is great about blockchain because it really it's a technology that people are finding new, creative, exciting use cases. They're finding new ways to apply it. And so yeah my definition of digital assets. Yeah. Initially when we started we always said crypto. And then you know crypto kind of took on some weird negative connotations for, for people. And so that certainly has changed as we've gone along. So we're no longer like crypto for enterprises. So digital assets I think is the one that everyone has kind of settled on. People sometimes say virtual currencies. But again, I think that's all limiting because it doesn't include things like NFTs, which for some people are like works of art, and NFTs can be a bunch of different things like a ticket that you use. It can be some sort of a utility access token, or it could be somebody's work of art that's documented on the blockchain.

Amy (00:26:21) - I think keeping things kind of broad with digital assets as opposed to any of the subsets, it makes the most sense.

Ariana (00:26:29) - Totally. And it leaves it room to grow as well, because who knows what's going to be happening in ten years, right?

Amy (00:26:33) - So actually the term digital asset had a previous meaning which people used. So like for websites and some like early on computer tech, it meant some sort of a photo that people would put on their website or things like that, like it had this old meaning–

Ariana (00:26:53) - Interesting.

Amy (00:26:54) - Asset on a website, but no one uses that anymore. But initially when you were Googling for digital assets like five years ago, you would get these like old sites like “these are all the assets” or like Digital Asset Manager would be like a way to manage all the visuals on a website.

Ariana (00:27:14) - That's interesting. I tell you, the history of technology is so interesting. If you aren't into it, I would highly recommend opening your mind to it because you have to think about… It's all a bunch of humans making decisions in recent decades about what technology is going to be. So there's so much incredible, like little tiny human decisions that now we use every single day. And it's something that's just happenstance, but it's fascinating. So we talk about technology in the digital asset space. But let's talk about internal technology within your operations. How do you decide and how have you learned to apply technology within your operations within the business?

Amy (00:27:55) - Yeah. So we have our SoC certification or SoC two. SoI'm sure a lot of your listeners will be familiar. And so for some of those we need to have technology to do things like ticketing systems for any sort of security related things or onboarding and offboarding. So we'll use tools like JIRA or something like that as a ticketing system. So some of our software decisions are driven by, you know, compliance requirements. And then some are just like what works best. And I tend to like let…if people suggest like, like do a trial, like let's try adding this new piece of tech if it really does help improve speed or efficiency or documentation adding it on I mean, certainly we're a software company, so we're very pro using software tools.

Amy (00:28:45) - So I'm usually a trial first to see if it really puts out the thought that, okay, this is going to help, you know, we have a vendor review process and things like that that we follow for adding new pieces of tech. But I think keeping an open mind on it sometimes, you know, I think I'm not sure this is really going to make things go faster or better. And then I'm wrong. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, we are all excited. We're like, “this is going to solve our problems” and then it doesn't. And so yeah, having that, that kind of flexibility and trying it out, that's kind of the startup mentality. Like giving something a shot, seeing reasonably if it was a good experiment and if it was not, you know, moving on.

Ariana (00:29:28) - Letting it go. That is so tough too, because it's hard to not get emotionally invested in a tool, even tools that I love. I have to be willing to let go of them or just be willing to say this isn't the right fit. But it's so hard. It is so hard, and it's good that you're like that. You keep an open mind. I always have to remind myself tools are being updated all the time. Software's being updated all the time. What was a tool that maybe didn't work a year ago? It could be an entirely different tool today, and you have to remain open to trying new things as hard as that can be sometimes when you have your beloved tools. So let's go into the behind the scenes, which is where we get a peek under the hood, learn about operations from parts that maybe we don't always get to talk about. And I think the first one that I really like to ask is, what do you think people get wrong about operations? Like if you hear about operations like, what do you think is the connotation that just doesn't fit in what you do?

Amy (00:30:23) - I guess that it's just finance. Like, I think a lot of times people think that it's like finance and budgeting and startups certainly can be, you know, operations can do the finance stuff.

Amy (00:30:36) - But I think sometimes people just think, oh, well, that's kind of like a finance function, but it can be so much more.

Ariana (00:30:43) - Totally. Thinking it's a singular thing is always going to be a problem with operations because it turns into a catchall. Which maybe it gets into the next question, which is out of that. What do you think is the hardest part about what you do, and what do you think that people should understand about that?

Amy (00:31:03) - And that's a tough question, because I think because it is so broad, the hardest part is probably just staying organized and keeping track of things. I think that's the hardest part of anyone's job when you have a lot of varied tasks on your plate. So I mean, just that kind of organization. And I think just generally in the workplace, that's what helps people be really, really successful, especially if you're like a work-from-home team like we are. So for myself and for everyone, like just keeping those really clear to do lists and action items and just staying organized when you are juggling so many different balls in the air.

Ariana (00:31:43) - Do you have any sort of pro tips? Because I would say I'm a naturally organized person. I have my moments, of course, but as a leader, I talk and navigate with a lot of people who aren't naturally organized. So with the remote team and organization being so important, do you have any tips for helping people who maybe aren't organized to sort of become more organized or shift to that mentality? Have you gotten any sort of tips along the way?

Amy (00:32:08) - I mean, we're big, heavy slack users. And so for me, like I have, I kind of keep running to do lists, I keep Slack messages, I keep certain ones marked as unread for circling back, like just having a really good process of how you're communicating with your team because they think staying organized. What I mean, like as a COO at this point, like I'm not necessarily the doer on a lot of the things that have to get done. But I'm like, ultimately the person who's responsible for those things getting done. And so staying organized and like having a really good communication channel with your team. And because my to do list are dependent on their to do lists. And so a lot of one on one on ones and Slack messages and meetings and just making sure that I know what everyone's doing and that I know when they're done doing it so that I can like, move on to the next. So I guess the tip there is like whatever system you're using to work with your team, making sure that that's aligned with your to do list.

Ariana (00:33:12) - Totally. And I think that also aligns to operations. I think a lot of people think, all right. And you can put in a task management platform, and then you can see a bird's eye view of everything. And I'm like, no, maybe that's part of it. But I find that in operations, the best thing that you can do is always sort of be a fly on the wall with conversations, because you end up seeing the things that need to get done, you know, ten dominoes before it falls.

Ariana (00:33:38) - And that's the hardest kind of part to articulate is like operations is really dependent on what other people are doing. And to know what other people are doing really comes out of listening more than prescribing. There's a happy balance, of course. Right. But you have to also just be a fly on the wall and just listen and figure out what's the next steps.

Amy (00:33:58) - Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And not everyone, like the task managers work for some people, but they don't work for everyone and not everyone likes the same ones. Like some of our team likes Notion and people have their different preferences. And so I never take a one size fits all approach because, you know, some people really don't like Notion and some people love it. And so just working with people. So as long as they're getting everything done and, you know, our salespeople, of course, they work out of HubSpot and their tasks are there and the rollup reports that I see are coming out of that system. So I think, like keeping an open mind on different teams and different people are going to stay organized in different ways. I think it's important.

Ariana (00:34:52) - Yeah, definitely. That's a good point with sales team members too, sometimes, like giving them the freedom to manage things on their own and then requiring the minimum that you need within a platform could be a great solution. They can work their magic and however their unique magic is. But then you can track things that you need to track, like kind of following that guideline for other teams is helpful to. Yeah. So this gets to the good stuff. Like what is the stuff in being in operations that just makes getting up in the morning worth it? Like what are the things about operations that really, I don't know, put a positive spin on your day?

Amy (00:35:26) - I mean, I think you have such a huge impact on the business, right? You are operating the business literally. And so things won't operate without the person managing it. So it's just that it's really a core part of running a company. And I, you know, it's my company with my co-founder and we have such a huge and great team and that every day I just feel excited to work on BitWave and excited to work with our team and our customers. And we have a huge network of partners too. This space just really, really surprises me every day. Just how willing everyone is to kind of work together and collaborate. And so I just decided every day that I work on BitWave and get to kind of chat with my team and with our customers and partners.

Ariana (00:36:16) - If someone's listening to us and they're like, I want to be Amy. Where do I begin to do that? How would you guide people in getting started within this field of operations that is vast and different per industry in person? Where would you guide them?

Amy (00:36:33) - I would say a small software startup, like a ten person, 15, 20 person at most team. And, you know, just get in. The best way to learn the stuff, I think, is by doing. I don't think I would have learned all I know about, like H.R. and different state filings. If I hadn't just jumped in and been like, yes, I'll do it. And and so I would say work at. I mean, there are risks of course, involved with a smaller startup. They're not, as you know, a big company is a big company for a reason. And so but if you really want to learn a lot, small startups are the best place to do that because there's so much to get done that if you're the kind of person who wants to learn a lot of different parts of running a business, the best place to do that is on a small team, because everyone's dividing up the responsibilities. And if you're on a startup where that's not happening, then that's probably not the right startup. I think a good startup, a good small stage startup, has an operations role, certainly where you will be pulled in a lot of different directions and the best way to learn.

Ariana (00:37:44) - Definitely. You'll just. You'll learn things that you never even wanted to know. And then you're like, “I'm so glad I know them. But like, who wants to know about freight shipping?” You know, across, you know, like, who wants to know about this thing or who wants to know about compliance with GDPR? But that's what evolves your skills and evolves how the business functions. Okay. Let's go to rapid fire questions, because we want to get to know about you as a human, not just as an operator. Although I really appreciate so much of your brain and all of your experience just breaking it down for us, especially within this industry. But let's learn about you. So just go with your first response on these. No big deal if it doesn't come to mind right away. First one is what is your favorite part of the day?

Amy (00:38:30) - My big cup of coffee in the morning and I just open up my… I just, I just open up my computer and I have a big…I still have it on my desk.

Ariana (00:38:42) - Woah! That's a bowl. It's a bowl.

Amy (00:38:45) - A bowl of coffee in the morning. Just open up and it’s just it's just a good way to start the day.

Ariana (00:38:52) - I love it. What book are you currently reading or what audiobook are you listening to?

Amy (00:38:58) - So it's the Ascent of Money and it's Nyles Ferguson, not Neil Ferguson. Ascent of Money. Super interesting. I'm only maybe like 3 or 4 chapters in, but it just kind of traces currency and money in the whole, like credit and financial system and M2 and like all these things you maybe learned in college in an accounting or finance class, just really, really, really super interesting. So I recommend I'm only about three chapters in, like I said, but so far so good.

Ariana (00:39:34) - That sounds so good. Also again, like so fascinating from a human psychology.

Amy (00:39:41) - What is money you know. Clay tablets to you know early silver to all you know to lending and. Yeah.

Ariana (00:39:50) - It's nuts. Really. I can't wait to check it out. What is the best purchase you've made under $50.

Amy (00:39:58) - Under $50 recently? I don't know.

Ariana (00:40:03) - It's a tough one. This one? This one gets people.

Amy (00:40:05) - Yeah, I'm a big comfortable shoes fan. So always flats. Always flats. Always arch support. So nothing fancy on the shoe front. Because when I go to conferences and you're like, on your feet after work from home, you're like sitting in your chair all day long. And then like last week, I was out of maisonette, which is a misery. It's like a research company in the digital asset space. And they host a conference. I actually spoke on a panel about crypto and taxes and accounting. And you go to these conferences after just like all day, every day, sitting in a chair. I mean, I try to take walks, of course, and things like that, and you're on your feet and it's such a shock to your system at least to mine. So always like comfortable shoes. So I think the last pair of shoes I bought was actually under $50 and very comfortable.

Ariana (00:41:00) - I love it, I'm a Birkenstock crunchy gal, so they're not the prettiest shoes. But man, are they they they help you out. They do you a solid. Exactly. What is something that makes you-little-kid-happy?

Amy (00:41:14) - Little kid happy? I guess this is going to sound silly, but my cat, Luna, she's like the snuggliest cat in the world, and I just feel like I probably just love her too much, like a little kid, because I just think she's just the best. And so she just makes me little-kid-happy when she just sits on my desk. She's not here because we're recording. I had to kick her out, but she'll just sit on my desk and purr. And with who are you? Why are you the sweetest cat in the world?

Ariana (00:41:43) - Can you give us, like, a sense of her vibe? Like, is she a black cat? Like, what's.

Ariana (00:41:48) - What does she look like?

Amy (00:41:48) - She's a Siberian. So she has, like, blue eyes and white fur, and she's very fluffy and very sweet. And I don't like when people say she's a very dog-like cat because cats are, you know.

Ariana (00:42:02) - They come in all different vibes.

Amy (00:42:04) - You don't have to always be aloof. And so she’s just a very friendly cat.

Ariana (00:42:10) - Oh, I love that. What is the most important lesson you've learned so far in your life?

Amy (00:42:17) - I think, at least from the business perspective, that you can usually get another job. Like, I think sometimes people worry so much, but like, I have skills, like I have a college degree, like, you know, taking a risk on a job that maybe you're not. You know, maybe people sometimes take comfortable jobs or more secure jobs. If a job doesn't work out like you can always find another job. I mean, maybe that's not true. Maybe that's just, you know, like a little bit of privilege with my college degree.

Amy (00:42:48) - But I think that oftentimes people are too unwilling to, like, take a risk on a job. You know, maybe I'm seeing that from my co-founder perspective or startup love perspective. But I’ll find a great candidate to interview and we think they're great. And they obviously like the company and then they get cold feet about joining a startup or joining something like the digital asset industry and industry. Everyone has different circumstances and different financial requirements. But just have more confidence in yourself. You know, if it doesn't work out like you're so marketable, like you can go find another job. And so that's my perspective on it. And so I don't know, I guess I learned that early on, I took risks when I started joining companies. Because I was like, you know, worst case scenario, like I'm going to just get another job. I don't know.

Ariana (00:43:43) - I feel like there's something in my youth that I'm like, man, I'm so glad.

Ariana (00:43:46)- I just didn't know what I didn't like. I just didn't know. And I just said yes. And I just jumped into the thing. There were so many things that came out of it that have been so beneficial that if I were so risk averse, I wouldn't have done them. And I'm just sort of great. I just said, yeah, like, let's just see where it goes.

Amy (00:44:01) - Maybe that's a better way to say it, to learn the skill. I think I learned the skill of not being risk averse. I think initially my nature would have been to be a little more risk…that's a better way to phrase what I was trying to say. Like, you have to learn, if you can, to not be scared of of risk.

Ariana (00:44:20) - Also, just as like a side note, I know this supposed to be a rapid fire question, but I think because what's happening now within the business world and within our society, there's so much that is not existing today that will exist in a year from now and five years from now and ten years from now, you're not going to know where you're going to end up.

And the things that you're going to do might not exist today. So sometimes you just have to say yes. And there might not be that track record, but that's just kind of where we're headed, you know, as a society. And being okay with being a little scared is, I think, a good thing. It's good for your character. Yeah I agree. Last question, which is what do you want to be when you grow up?

Amy (00:45:02) - Gosh, I want to be…I want to be what I am. I always wanted to run a business. And so I'm doing it like I want to be a co-founder and COO of a company.

Ariana (00:45:19) - I think little-kid Amy would be very proud.

Amy (00:45:22) - Thank you, thank you.

Amy (00:45:24) - I hope so I just love it. And so I'm. Yeah. I have the job I feel really lucky. I have the job that I've always wanted.

Ariana (00:45:35) - That's so heartwarming and infectious.

Ariana (00:45:39) - If people are hearing you and again, they're like,”love Amy. So curious about Bit Wave”. Want to learn more? Where would you want to direct people?

Amy (00:45:47) - Yeah but bitwave.io go there. You can get a hold of all of us info@bitwave.io Any email there can get routed to me as well. We're on X now at @bitwaveplatform and on LinkedIn as well.

Ariana (00:46:03) - Great. Amy, thank you again for sharing your knowledge and bringing to light this just evolving industry in the realm of operations. It's so fascinating to me and I really appreciate you helping us to learn.

Amy (00:46:16) - Oh thank you. This has been really fun.

Ariana (00:46:18) - Great! Secret Ops listeners. Thank you, as always, for listening. It means the absolute world. This is a reminder to please subscribe wherever you find your podcast and check us out at secret-ops.com.

Ariana (00:46:30) - We'll see you next time.